Why are Contacts so Expensive?

[Danukian]

I am pretty sure this has come up before, but my Google-Fu is failing me: Why are contacts so expensive? Nearly any concept of a contact is a lot cheaper for any character over 75CP as an ally rather than a contact with the added benefit of the Ally joining in on combat - the only downside is a Duty to protect the ally, but Sense of Duty (Single Person) is -2CP, and according to B131, you can bring that cost down even more if the Ally is also a Dependent. What am I missing?

Some basic examples:

Mr. Cranston, a 150pt Investigator has a childhood buddy that's on the Police Force. As a Contact, lets say the buddy has Effective Skill 15, Completely Reliable, but only available on a 6 or less (he has a Duty after all!) That's (2x3/2) 3cp. The same buddy using as a 75pt Ally is 1cp (505 of PC = 2pts, 6 or less is /2) AND He'll occasionally help out in Danger. If Mr. Cranston gains CP, so does his ally, but not his Contact! If Mr. Cranston started out 300pt Psychic Investigator, Buddy Cop Ally is is only 1 point if you double either his Frequency of Appearance or his CP Total, but Buddy Cop Contact is still unchanged.

Joe has a cousin that's a celebutante - reading the opening line of the Contact description on B44 {You have an associate who provides you with useful information, or who does small (pick any two of “quick,” “nonhazardous,” and “inexpensive”) favors for you}, contact seems like the way to go, however, the actual rules for contacts lets you choose a single skill - not reflecting the Independent Income, Status, and plethora of superficial skills a celebutante has {Dance, Current Affairs (Celeb), Savior-Fare (Club Scene), Sex Appeal, etc.}, not to mention the ability to get you into posh events. You could easily stat up a 25pt celebutante that is both an ally and a dependent for a net 0cp, but the rules for making her a contact just don't jive with the description given.

It gets even worse for Contact Groups, if you have a group of Biker friends, the minimum for a crew of semi-competent bikers that are never around and will turn you in at the drop of a hat comes to 1.25, rounded to 1 cp, a gang of skilled (15), trustworthy (Usually Reliable) bikers comes to 20 before FoA; A group 6-10 of COMPLETELY LOYAL bikers willing to fight and kill for you is worth 12cp before FoA. Sure, the Bikers are going to get into trouble and you are going to have to help them out, but offset that with Sense of Duty (My Biker Buddies) [-5] and Enemies (Rival Gangs, Etc.) [v].

?

[Crakkerjakk]

Courtesy of Harald387, I believe:

Contacts and Contact groups are overpriced, especially beside Allies in high point value games. Remove 'Contact Group' entirely; a Contact purchased at the normal point cost provides access to an appropriate Wildcard skill; for instance, a friend in the police department would provide "Police!", while a member of an ancient magical order might provide "Magical Research!". Describe your Contact and work out appropriate skills with the GM. For base cost, the contact is available only in the campaign's primary area. For a network of contacts that stretches through a nation or other large area, pay double cost; for a network that stretches through the civilized world, pay five times cost. Effective Skill and Reliability costs are as normal.

Example: "Knife", the super-powered vampire hunter, has a friend who runs an occult shop in the city. This is a Magical Research! contact; Knife could bring him strange items for identification (Hidden Lore), ask his advice on the weaknesses of monsters (Occultism), or find out who's who in the magical underworld (Area Knowledge/Current Affairs). This is an example of a contact in a single city. (Contact: Magical Research!-12 (12 or less*2, Somewhat Reliable*1, Single City*1) [2])

Example 2: Lord Blake, The Master of Mysticism, has a worldwide network of contacts and friends who can provide him aid. Whether he's in Beijing, Abu Dhabi, or Moose Jaw, a successful Frequency of Appearance roll will let him find someone friendly who understands local magical practices, knows which of the local legends might be true, and can help him in the same ways as the contact described above. (Contact: Magical Research!-12 (9 or less*1, Usually Reliable*2, Worldwide*5) [10])

Simple fix.

[Danukian]

That is much neater than RAW, especially for the Group, but Knife's Contact, assuming Knife is a Vampire Hunter worth at least 200pts, could easily have be an Ally with 10 skills at a 14-16 for 1 cp... Still I like the idea. Maybe I'll fiddle around with Accessibility rules and such and write up a few trails before I make a judgement. Thank You, though - it looks like the way to go.

My other idea was Ally (Won't participate in action, -20%), but if you further adjust for shady contacts, it gets too cheap to be worth the fiddle.

[Langy]

Oone of the primary benefits of a Contact over an Ally is that a Contact acts outside of the party's scope, giving them insight into things the party wouldn't otherwise know or be able to do, while Allies act within the party's scope - they do things with the party, rather than apart from them. That's a crucial difference that keeps them both useful.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Danukian

Joe has a cousin that's a celebutante - reading the opening line of the Contact description on B44 {You have an associate who provides you with useful information, or who does small (pick any two of “quick,” “nonhazardous,” and “inexpensive”) favors for you}, contact seems like the way to go, however, the actual rules for contacts lets you choose a single skill - not reflecting the Independent Income, Status, and plethora of superficial skills a celebutante has {Dance, Current Affairs (Celeb), Savior-Fare (Club Scene), Sex Appeal, etc.}, not to mention the ability to get you into posh events. You could easily stat up a 25pt celebutante that is both an ally and a dependent for a net 0cp, but the rules for making her a contact just don't jive with the description given.

The question is, do you really want to take that character into your gunfights and try to keep her alive? Because if she's your Ally...that's what you have to do.

Also you're wrong. The "effective" skill does reflect the income, status, and other skills the character might have. It's in the advantage description.

[Anthony]

My preferred version of Contact is to treat it as a generic case of powers:

A Contact or Patron provides non-combat advantages or skills, but only when the contact is available to offer that ability. Mechanically, just design a package of benefits the contact grants, and then apply appropriate limitations -- typically some combination of Accessibility (contacts are often limited to specific geographic regions), Pact (your contact won't help if you misbehave), Preparation Required (usually takes a while to find your contact), and Unreliable.

[Nosforontu]

Originally Posted by Danukian

I am pretty sure this has come up before, but my Google-Fu is failing me: Why are contacts so expensive? Nearly any concept of a contact is a lot cheaper for any character over 75CP as an ally rather than a contact with the added benefit of the Ally joining in on combat - the only downside is a Duty to protect the ally, but Sense of Duty (Single Person) is -2CP, and according to B131, you can bring that cost down even more if the Ally is also a Dependent. What am I missing?

Your right..when you are viewing it as an alternative to an ally, but what I think it may have priced as was an alternative to a targeted fixed skill level, that also comes with occassional bit of flavor/information beyond the fixed skill. For example Bob the Barbarian could spend points on raising his own hidden lore (hygiene) skill level but with an IQ 8 it would be a lot of points for him to get it at a solid level. Alternatively he could buy a contact with a skill 21 in the Hidden Lore (Hygiene) for 4 points instead of the 56 points that it would cost Bob the Barbarian to match his contacts skill level.

[warmachine]

I think the OP demonstrates the mistake of merely describing contacts by a GURPS skill and the OP should use 'celebutante 15'.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by warmachine

I think the OP demonstrates the mistake of merely describing contacts by a GURPS skill and the OP should use 'celebutante 15'.

It's not a mistake:

Originally Posted by B44

Next, choose the useful skill your
Contact provides. This skill must
match the Contact’s background; e.g.,
Finance for a banker or Forensics for
a lab technician. Since the GM rolls
against this skill when you request aid
from your Contact, you should select a
skill that can provide the results you
expect.

It is, however, a very dubious investment point-wise, with that I agree.

[Danukian]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The question is, do you really want to take that character into your gunfights and try to keep her alive? Because if she's your Ally...that's what you have to do.

Initially, no - I wanted to build a concept as written in the description, but RAW is making it too obscure.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Also you're wrong. The "effective" skill does reflect the income, status, and other skills the character might have. It's in the advantage description.

Yes, Sorry, what I meant was it doesn't reflect the other uses of those advantages: If you had Celeb contact with Current Affairs (Celeb) 15, her status 4 and Independent Income 5 mean nothing to you when you want to - as written in the description - ask her for a quick favor, like get you access to someone/something.