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Old 05-06-2014, 10:25 PM   #11
Sindri
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Default Re: Cumulative Parry Penalty Reduction House Rules

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
I've pondered allowing '-1 per 2' parries for say someone with a Fencing weapon, TBaM, and Weapon Master

Haven't ever tested this has noone has ever played such
Letting them stack is a way of handling the annoying overlap between WM and TBAM but I'd be concerned about power. It would get especially crazy with two handed fencing weapons. Would you allow rapid strike reduction stacking as well? While cumulative parry penalty reduction is cool I think its easy to overestimate it's actual power at the high end whereas double rapid strike halving would be scary.
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:13 AM   #12
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Default Re: Cumulative Parry Penalty Reduction House Rules

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Then don't post in a thread compiling house rules for them, unless to comment on previously posted house rules. No specifications I could make would suddenly cause other people to have house rules. I'm interested in compiling other peoples' house rules regarding multiple parries not asking how to solve a problem.
Woah...dude, I wasn't pooh-poohing your thread, I was trying to understand the question. If I knew what your purpose was in asking it, I thought that would allow me to be more helpful, but I guess you're intent on keeping your purpose a secret.
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:57 AM   #13
Sindri
 
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Default Re: Cumulative Parry Penalty Reduction House Rules

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Woah...dude, I wasn't pooh-poohing your thread, I was trying to understand the question. If I knew what your purpose was in asking it, I thought that would allow me to be more helpful, but I guess you're intent on keeping your purpose a secret.
Sorry, I was harsher there than I should have been.

I'm not trying to keep my purpose a secret, my purpose here is just to accumulate house rules people have on the subject both in case I see something that makes me rethink what I have right now and because its nice to have these sorts of threads for people in the future.

These house rules certainly exist because there is a certain kind of person who can't not create them and there are probably examples that haven't been posted to the forums yet.

These forums can be rather tangent-happy which is often great but for some topics it can mean the thread getting sidetracked talking about one thing while ignoring other parts of the subject so it's sometimes worth it to try to preemptively keep the thread from getting off topic right at the start.

To take a risk there, here is what I'm dissatisfied with in multiple parries. With Martial Arts we have three things that reduce multiple parry penalties (aside from WM and TBAM) Fencing Parries, Parrying with Two-Handed Weapons and A Matter of Inches.

Fencing Parries are pretty apparent even with the tweaks Martial Arts adds and they don't give any bonus to lighter fencing weapons compared to their heavier counterparts.

A Matter of Inches allows for that and also avoids the jump from -4 to -2 but in the process it throws away any representation of the advantages of fencing parries. It's just a straight penalty reduction by comparative strength instead of a trade off where someone gets a bonus to some kinds of retreats and a cool parrying ability... but only against frontal attacks and while taking penalties like dodge does. It also doesn't work as well with really strong people because if they have already capped out for heavier weapons it only has U parry vs not U parry which isn't necessarily unrealistic but it means combatants function very similarly. It's also kind of weird that it adds another reason for someone who is good at an unarmed skill to look for some weapon they can use with it with an actual ST stat so they can exceed it to become better at parrying.

Parrying with Two-Handed Weapons is annoying since it requires the weapon to be held in two hands rather than simply be a two handed weapon which doesn't really make sense to me and also makes it feel like a buff for two handed weapon guys rather than a nod to realism. It also shares the Fencing Parry abrupt jump from -4 to -2. Combining it with A Matter of Inches makes it so one style of weapon is useful in addition to Strength but it raises the question of why fencing can't similarly contribute anything to parrying besides light weapons and Parrying with Two-Handed Weapons' ability to be used with Staff makes a few weapons the thing you use if you want to be good at parrying.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:02 PM   #14
Peter V. Dell'Orto
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Default Re: Cumulative Parry Penalty Reduction House Rules

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Parrying with Two-Handed Weapons is annoying since it requires the weapon to be held in two hands rather than simply be a two handed weapon which doesn't really make sense to me and also makes it feel like a buff for two handed weapon guys rather than a nod to realism.
The reason for this is not a bone thrown to players with greatswords but a reflection of the material we read when we researched the book. Several weapons - and their use in two hands - were called out as especially good defensively. That's something Basic Set didn't reflect. That optional rule aims to fix it.

So it's not just the weapon but the usage, hence why it's not a change to, say, a Thrusting Greatsword, but to Two-Handed Sword skill.

FWIW I use it in my games, and it's fine. You give up a lot to get it, not having a shield.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:25 PM   #15
Sindri
 
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Default Re: Cumulative Parry Penalty Reduction House Rules

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The reason for this is not a bone thrown to players with greatswords but a reflection of the material we read when we researched the book. Several weapons - and their use in two hands - were called out as especially good defensively. That's something Basic Set didn't reflect. That optional rule aims to fix it.

So it's not just the weapon but the usage, hence why it's not a change to, say, a Thrusting Greatsword, but to Two-Handed Sword skill.

FWIW I use it in my games, and it's fine. You give up a lot to get it, not having a shield.
Oh I don't think it is a bone thrown to players with greatsword. I've always believed MA about it's claim that the rule was to represent the claims of Masters of Defense and I apologize if my post came across as claiming that it was in fact just a balance adjustment. Nonetheless it can end up feeling that way despite me knowing it's not true.

Certainly there are going to be usage differences between one handed and two handed use but personally I'd prefer to estimate them as smaller than this if you have the Strength necessary to have it perform otherwise mostly the same.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:08 PM   #16
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: Cumulative Parry Penalty Reduction House Rules

I've considered changing Shields from -5 to -4 base for iterating

I use the '2 handed weapons tend toward -2 base' optional rule wiht no ill effects

I don't let WM and TBaM stack for iterating attacks, just pondered it for defenses

I've never used Matter of Inches
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:55 PM   #17
simply Nathan
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Default Re: Cumulative Parry Penalty Reduction House Rules

I've never used multiple parries, blocks, or dodges in a single turn. My GM just never threw that many monsters out per PC.
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:26 PM   #18
Sindri
 
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Default Re: Cumulative Parry Penalty Reduction House Rules

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I've considered changing Shields from -5 to -4 base for iterating
Hmm. That would be aesthetically pleasing but I'm leery to change it without a more concrete motive and ideally some testing.

Is the story of how multiple shield blocks got to be -5 remembered?

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I've never used multiple parries, blocks, or dodges in a single turn. My GM just never threw that many monsters out per PC.
I hope no one was unfortunate enough to be a fencer!
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:23 AM   #19
simply Nathan
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Default Re: Cumulative Parry Penalty Reduction House Rules

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I hope no one was unfortunate enough to be a fencer!
Someone was unfortunate enough to take both Trained by a Master and Weapon Master (All Ninja Weapons) in a 100-point campaign and we didn't even look up the rules for Rapid Strike or multiple parries (the GM didn't even decide if he wanted to use the basic rules for parries until after the first session).
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:20 AM   #20
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Default Re: Cumulative Parry Penalty Reduction House Rules

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Someone was unfortunate enough to take both Trained by a Master and Weapon Master (All Ninja Weapons) in a 100-point campaign and we didn't even look up the rules for Rapid Strike or multiple parries (the GM didn't even decide if he wanted to use the basic rules for parries until after the first session).
Bit harsh, did the GM give the player some compensation CPs?
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