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Old 01-23-2014, 10:53 AM   #21
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Default Re: No Mana Vs. No Magic

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
By extension you could have a Weird Science Enhancer that would let Gutenberg tech work elsewhere and so forth.
I fail to see a problem with that.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:04 AM   #22
malloyd
 
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Default Re: No Mana Vs. No Magic

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Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
So, my interpretation of the Infinite Worlds setting is thus:
1) When you are operating under "normal" physics. The kind you find on Homeline, its echos, most places really magic works.
2) Not all places have mana. Homeline is devoid of mana. But if you brought a mana enhancer in, it would work fine. Mages could cast in the little bubble of magic.
3) Some worlds will have different physics than normal. For example a world where electricity doesn't function. No reason you couldn't have a world where magic doesn't work. However these are the exception, not the rule.
You can, but there's no particular reason not to assume "normal" physics means magic will never work and the places it will if there is mana are the exceptions.

Or for that matter than both are the rare exceptions and that in most universes *neither* magic nor the normal physics works. Which actually seems likely in a multiverse were different kinds of "physics" are possible, it's just that nobody in a Cabal or Infinity campaign could go to any of that vast majority of worlds, and wouldn't want to anyway since they'd probably instantly disintegrate.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:08 AM   #23
malloyd
 
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Default Re: No Mana Vs. No Magic

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
I fail to see a problem with that.
Me neither. But it's perfectly reasonable to have worlds, even lots and lots of worlds, where both Mana and Weird Science Enhancers will not work, but Crystal Power Enhancers would work fine. This is just yet another kind of physics after all, and once you are allowing multiple kinds, there's no reason to stop at 3.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:45 PM   #24
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: No Mana Vs. No Magic

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
You can, but there's no particular reason not to assume "normal" physics means magic will never work and the places it will if there is mana are the exceptions.
.
Oh I can think of a reason. There are two possibilities.

1. The player characters have magic.

In this case you want the default case to be that magic will work at least a little to avoid disgruntlement after they invested in a generally worthless trait. That's particularly true if they went so far as to invest in Mana Enhancer

2. The player characters do not have magic.

In which the distinction between a place where magic could possibly work at least under some circumstances but you don't ever happen to encounter anything using it and a place where magic could not possibly work at all is purely abstract and not really worth thinking about.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:53 PM   #25
Nosforontu
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: No Mana Vs. No Magic

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Oh I can think of a reason. There are two possibilities.
2. The player characters do not have magic.

In which the distinction between a place where magic could possibly work at least under some circumstances but you don't ever happen to encounter anything using it and a place where magic could not possibly work at all is purely abstract and not really worth thinking about.

Unless of course the question of why are we being sent in to this world instead of the Lich team instead is relevant instead, or you you need to race against a clock of some sort (only in the season of the witch does mana exist on world x, you have 2 weeks to get in and complete your mission before it is over).

Both are niche cases true, but the impossibility of mana existing on world x could make far less usable for the Cabal for instance, which might also be an important background element for that world.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:18 PM   #26
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: No Mana Vs. No Magic

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Originally Posted by Nosforontu View Post
Unless of course the question of why are we being sent in to this world instead of the Lich team instead is relevant instead, or you you need to race against a clock of some sort (only in the season of the witch does mana exist on world x, you have 2 weeks to get in and complete your mission before it is over).
Neither of those are relevant to whether it should be the default case that magic can work at least a little as a default case. Exceptions to the rule are by definition not default cases.


Quote:
Both are niche cases true, but the impossibility of mana existing on world x could make far less usable for the Cabal for instance, which might also be an important background element for that world.
Doubt it. There's lot of worlds where the Cabal isn't after all.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:38 PM   #27
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Default Re: No Mana Vs. No Magic

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Originally Posted by Nosforontu View Post
Both are niche cases true, but the impossibility of mana existing on world x could make far less usable for the Cabal for instance, which might also be an important background element for that world.
In general, magical means of world travel probably cannot reach worlds where mana cannot exist. Actually, it's hard to come up with a coherent system of dimension travel that doesn't have some sort of meta-rules controlling all possible reachable worlds, which probably means that if mana can exist anywhere, it can exist everywhere, though possibly subject to being immediately wiped out due to field interactions of some sort.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:41 PM   #28
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: No Mana Vs. No Magic

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
1. The player characters have magic.

In this case you want the default case to be that magic will work at least a little to avoid disgruntlement after they invested in a generally worthless trait. That's particularly true if they went so far as to invest in Mana Enhancer
? You mean basing the game setting on how players design their characters?
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:52 AM   #29
Fwibos
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Default Re: No Mana Vs. No Magic

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
F

*You could also extend the progression (Very High - High - Normal - Low - Very Low - No Mana) past No Mana to something like Mana Devouring, which would require higher levels of Mana Enhancer to get past the No Mana threshold and might even be able to make things like magic items eventually permanently lose their enchantment. Creatures with Dependency (Mana) would take damage more rapidly in such areas (being in a No Mana zone is like holding your breath underwater, being in a Mana Devouring zone is like having the air forced from your lungs while underwater).
I like this. I never liked the idea of Homeline having ZERO magic. I do like it being sufficiently hard that nobody bothers. So I might make the world "devouring mana with a few pockets of no mana and fewer still pockets of very low mana"
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:13 PM   #30
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: No Mana Vs. No Magic

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
? You mean basing the game setting on how players design their characters?
Other way around. If magic doesn't work, what the heck are you doing letting players design magicians?
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