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Old 11-26-2013, 01:11 PM   #21
hcobb
 
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Originally Posted by selenite View Post
I'm surprised. I don't think a 3/1 Ranger unit is cost-effective but putting a Ranger and two Regular infantry in a town gives you an effectively D18 unit. So Rangers are a great way to beef up a defensive line.
Not really.

3xInf in town: 6 VPs. Against an 18 point attack it loses 6 VPs on a roll of 4, 5 or 6 and 2 VPs on a roll of 2 or 3. Hence on average it loses 3.7 VPs per shot.

2xInf+1xRan in town: 8 VPs. Against a 18 point attack it loses 8 VPs on a roll of 5 or 6 and 2.7 VPs on a roll of 3 or 4. Hence on average it loses 3.6 VPs per shot.

So the Ranger "boost" is less of a defense increase than a cost increase, with no attack increase at all.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:35 PM   #22
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I assume that if a stack of infantry containing a ranger is reduced, the owner chooses which piece to remove, meaning a loss of 2 VP. Is that not correct?

Doing a slightly fuller analysis under this assumption, the VP difference is 2/3 VP for attack strengths of 9-17 and 1 VP for attack strengths of 5-8. Still not compelling.

However, it seems to me that the true use case is when the extra movement lets them participate in fights they would otherwise not reach in time. The handout does say they are intended for use in special case scenarios.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:50 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
2xInf+1xRan in town: 8 VPs. Against a 18 point attack it loses 8 VPs on a roll of 5 or 6 and 2.7 VPs on a roll of 3 or 4. Hence on average it loses 3.6 VPs per shot.
For that specific case, it loses 2 VPs on a roll of 3 or 4, since you can choose to reduce the infantry, not the rangers. Your overall analysis is still solid.

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Old 11-26-2013, 03:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Galfridus View Post
However, it seems to me that the true use case is when the extra movement lets them participate in fights they would otherwise not reach in time. The handout does say they are intended for use in special case scenarios.
Ding! you just hit the nail on the head. You'd use them in areas with restrictive terrain, where INF units would dominate. They can rush in, hit their target, and then outrun regular Infantry units.

Another suggestion I'd posted long ago, when I posted my own take on converting Rangers from Battlesuit to regular Ogre/GEV, was to allow Rangers to use nuclear demolition charges to destroy structures. Here was my take (and be advised this is all completely UNOFFICIAL in every way, shape, or form).

Ranger Infantry (RANGER) - Ranger counters represent either 1, 2, or 3 squad(s) of specially trained and equipped infantry, that are used for raiding and scouting missions. Ranger units are equipped better electronics, weapons, and communications systems than standard infantry units. Ranger battlesuits allow infantry to move at a higher rate of speed than a regular infantry unit. Rangers have an attack strength of 1, a range of 1, a defense strength of 2 and a movement of 3. They may be purchased at a rate of 2:1 (1 squad of Rangers per two squads of regular Infantry), and are worth 4 VP.

Ranger units may mine structures for demolition. Once a structure is mined it can immediately be destroyed by the player who mined it, or he can destroy it in any phase of any subsequent turn he wishes, turning the structure to rubble. Infantry inside the structure are destroyed. All other units, with the exception of an Ogre, immediately suffer a 2-1 attack, and are left within the rubble area if they survive the explosion. It takes one squad of Rangers one turn, doing nothing else, to mine 10 SP worth of building.

Rangers may also plant a Small Atomic Demolition Munitions (SADM - a small back pack sized nuclear charge) to destroy a structure, cut a road, or destroy a bridge. Each Ranger squad is capable of carrying one charge. To plant the charge the Ranger squad must spend two turns doing nothing but planting the charge. At the end of the second turn move the squad 1 hex away, and a crater counter is placed in the hex that the Rangers were previously occupying. The crater is considered rubble for movement purposes and is not impassable like the crater created by a cruise-missile. When planted in a building or on a bridge, the charge will immediately destroy the structure.

Here's a link to the thread I first posted them in - http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...hlight=Rangers
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Last edited by DSumner; 02-25-2017 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:24 PM   #25
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I assume that if a stack of infantry containing a ranger is reduced, the owner chooses which piece to remove, meaning a loss of 2 VP. Is that not correct?
It is not. See 3.02:
"All types of infantry can combine in groups of up to three squads for defensive purposes. Any two squads can defend together at D2, and any three squads can defend at D3. If an attacker gets a D result against a mixed stack of infantry, roll randomly to see which squad is lost."
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:49 PM   #26
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Not really.

3xInf in town: 6 VPs. Against an 18 point attack it loses 6 VPs on a roll of 4, 5 or 6 and 2 VPs on a roll of 2 or 3. Hence on average it loses 3.7 VPs per shot.

2xInf+1xRan in town: 8 VPs. Against a 18 point attack it loses 8 VPs on a roll of 5 or 6 and 2.7 VPs on a roll of 3 or 4. Hence on average it loses 3.6 VPs per shot.

So the Ranger "boost" is less of a defense increase than a cost increase, with no attack increase at all.
Isn't the ability to force an 18 point(!) attack at the chokepoint of your choosing worth a tactical advantage that a mere comparison of VPs isn't going to measure?
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:56 PM   #27
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Isn't the ability to force an 18 point(!) attack at the chokepoint of your choosing worth a tactical advantage that a mere comparison of VPs isn't going to measure?
An 18 point anti-infantry attack is not all that impressive, when you have Ogres with 12 APs wandering around. Heck even a Mark III can wing it, when it's using it's MB to blast a GEV.
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:59 PM   #28
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An 18 point anti-infantry attack is not all that impressive, when you have Ogres with 12 APs wandering around. Heck even a Mark III can wing it, when it's using it's MB to blast a GEV.
Not every scenario has Ogres in it.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:34 PM   #29
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4xLGEVs will kill your combined stack without loss, given enough time.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:35 PM   #30
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4xLGEVs will kill your combined stack without loss, given enough time.
If given enough time can't I achieve my objective and win the scenario? Isn't buying time the whole point of stacking Rangers with Infantry in a town?
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