The X-Men

[KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads]

Just because I'm playing "X-Men Legends II" and I've nothing to do (well, I should be studing for two exams I have in four days, but these are details ;P ). This thread is open: post your X-Men characters if you want to (basically because I red X-Men comics a long time ago, and I cannot remembr everything). Note: do not include advantages such as Allies and Patrons, because it would be a nightmare trying to remember who is (or was) allied with who.

Colossus

ST 15 [50] HP 15 [0]
DX 13 [60] Basic Speed 7 [10] Basic Move 7 [0]
IQ 12 [40] Perception 12 [0] Will 14 [10]
HT 13 [30] FP: 13 [0]

Advantages: Alternate Form (Armored Form) (Mutant, -10%) [363]; Combat Reflexes [15]; English (Accented/Literacy) [5]; Gifted Artist 1 [5]; Hard to Kill 2 [4]; Hard to Subdue 2 [4]; Reputation (Hero) +2 [5]; Russian (Native/Literacy) [0]; Very Fit [15].
Disadvantages: Honesty (9) [-15]; Pacifism (Cannot Kill) [-15]; Sense of Duty (towards all humanity) [-15]; Social Stigma (Monster) [-15]; Truthfulness (12) [-5].
Skills: Acrobatics 14 [8]; Artist (Painting) 12 [2]; Climbing 14 [4]; Expert Skill (Agronomy) 12 [2]; Karate 16 [16]; Judo 14 [8]; Jumping 15 [4]; Throwing 14 [4].


Colossus' Armored Form
Advantages: Blunt Claws [3]; DR 50 (Hardened 1, +20%; Half protection against electrical attacks, -5%) [313]; IT (Damage Reduction 2) [50]; IT (Homogenous) [40]; IT (No eyes) (Not once DR is penetrated, -40%) [3]; Immune to Metabolic Hazards [30]; Lifting ST +13 (Super Effort, +400%) [130]; Striking ST +40 (Pact with the GM: Never use a weapon, -60%) [80]; ST +5 [50].
Quirks: Cannot float [-1].


Notes
Colossus can lift up to 81 tons with a Super Effort in his armored form, which seems pretty coherent with the comics (I know, in "Secret Wars" he actually lift a starship, but that's another matter). He has ST 32 for grappling, choking and so on, and does 13d-1 crushing with a punch or 13d crushing with a kick (his Claws represent the fact that he strikes you with metal punches!). His DR makes him invulnerable to all ordinary firearms; it has a "Protects the eyes" enhanchement because Colossus' eyes turn to metal when he morphs. IT (DR) is here because colossus' body of living metal seems to be pretty resistant. I'm almost sure I forgot something, however...

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads

DR 50 (Protect the eyes, +10%; ) it has a "Protects the eyes" enhanchement because Colossus' eyes turn to metal when he morphs.

That will cost 25 points, that's overpriced, when compared with IT: No Eyes [5], I’d suggest taking IT: No Eyes with a limitation (not once DR Penetrated; -60% at a guess) [2]

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

That will cost 25 points, that's overpriced, when compared with IT: No Eyes [5], I’d suggest taking IT: No Eyes with a limitation (not once DR Penetrated; -60% at a guess) [2]

Good idea. He'd also be vulnerable to some types of blinding attacks, I imagine, which would further limit the value. Even with that, I wouldn't peg it at -60%, particularly with such a high DR. 'Course, with such a cheap ad, quibbling over the value of a limit seems nearly pointless ;)

[Wilfredo Martinez]

I'm working on my own versions of the X-Men using POWERS (I have a version of Storm almost ready) but I'd like to offer some comments here:

IQ 12? Peter never struck me as being so smart. He's no idiot either, but I'd give him a 10. Likewise, DX 13 might be too much: 12 at most.

You forgot to give him Accented English.

He doesn't obsess over laws, so he shouldn't have Honesty. Maybe Truthfulness. His Sense of Duty goes to all Humanity, though- he's a real hero. He CAN kill (remember Proteus?) but he's a Reluctant Killer. His Social Stigma should be: Mutant. Acrobatics? No way. Yes, he's more dexterous than you'd expect a solid steel man to be, but he doesn't do the stunts that, say, Storm does (I've seen her dodge attacks by somersaulting, back when she was depowered.) And the Martial Art skills are way too high; he's a Brawler.

In the comics, Colossus could lift 50 Tons (with effort, presumably) before he recovered from the wounds suffered during the Mutant Massacre, then his strenght increased to 75 tons. His DR is NOT completely weak to electricity (or Storm would've fried him back when she went temporarily insane after Dr. Doom turned her into a statue!) thought it does hurt him. (Buy partially limited DR.) And why wouldn't he use a weapon? Do you mean guns, or any handheld weapon? Because I've seen him use bent girders and such as weapons.

You might want to give him skills that show his experience as an X-Man, such as History (Esoteric) (for all the stuff he's seen, like Apocalypse's influence on mutantkind thru history) and Psionics (for his experiences with Xavier and other Psionicists).

Still, a pretty good adaptation in general.

[Mgellis]

Minor correction...this would cost 50 points, not 25 (see Powers, p. 53).

Originally Posted by KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads

IT (Damage Reduction 2) [25]

[naloth]

This isn't the first time this topic has come up. You can get some ideas from:

Errant42's AoA Characters

Some previous discussion

Naturally Powers wasn't available at that time, so these should be updated to take that into account.

Also is there any specific campaign PV you have in mind?

[KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads]

Originally Posted by Wilfredo Martinez

IQ 12? Peter never struck me as being so smart. He's no idiot either, but I'd give him a 10. Likewise, DX 13 might be too much: 12 at most.

Well, he seems more clever than people like Wolverine, Iceman and so on, so I'd gave him IQ 12. DX 13 is appropriate: he is often described as incredibly quick for such a man with such a huge built.

You forgot to give him Accented English.

He has, actually. ;)

He doesn't obsess over laws, so he shouldn't have Honesty. Maybe Truthfulness. His Sense of Duty goes to all Humanity, though- he's a real hero. He CAN kill (remember Proteus?) but he's a Reluctant Killer. His Social Stigma should be: Mutant.

I always thought about him as an honest man. He already has Truthfulness. You're right with Sense of Duty: I'll correct it. Obviously he can kill, but he did it only a couple of times, pushed by incredible anger or pressant necessity, and as you pointed out, he is an heri - and an hero does not kill. Mutant are seen as monster, so I used the standard denomination of this SS.

Acrobatics? No way. Yes, he's more dexterous than you'd expect a solid steel man to be, but he doesn't do the stunts that, say, Storm does (I've seen her dodge attacks by somersaulting, back when she was depowered.) And the Martial Art skills are way too high; he's a Brawler.

Actually he does incredible stunts (acrobatic falls and similar), so he deserves Acrobatics. His training and combat effectiveness are more martial arts than brawling, too.

In the comics, Colossus could lift 50 Tons (with effort, presumably) before he recovered from the wounds suffered during the Mutant Massacre, then his strenght increased to 75 tons. His DR is NOT completely weak to electricity (or Storm would've fried him back when she went temporarily insane after Dr. Doom turned her into a statue!) thought it does hurt him. (Buy partially limited DR.) And why wouldn't he use a weapon? Do you mean guns, or any handheld weapon? Because I've seen him use bent girders and such as weapons.

I'll correct Lifting ST and DR. For "weapon" in that case I mean "everything that could benefit from ST", since he fight bare-handed.

You might want to give him skills that show his experience as an X-Man, such as History (Esoteric) (for all the stuff he's seen, like Apocalypse's influence on mutantkind thru history) and Psionics (for his experiences with Xavier and other Psionicists).

Right.

Still, a pretty good adaptation in general.

Thank you! :)

[KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

That will cost 25 points, that's overpriced, when compared with IT: No Eyes [5], I’d suggest taking IT: No Eyes with a limitation (not once DR Penetrated; -60% at a guess) [2]

No, because:

a) He isn't immune (IIRC) to blinding and vision-based attacks.

b) Force Field is +20%: it protects the eyes and avoid direct contact. Colossus DR protects only the eyese, so it is cheaper.

BTW, "Cannot be damaged unless DR is penetrated" is the standard rule. :P

Originally Posted by Mgellis

Minor correction...this would cost 50 points, not 25

Right. I'll correct this.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads

No, because:
a) He isn't immune (IIRC) to blinding

And with IT: (No Eyes not once DR Penetrated; -60%) he can still be blinded, that why it’s a limitation. It works like this (with his DR and hit points) with an attack to the eyes:
Damage 1-50 Ignore
Damage 51+ multiply damage by 4; Blinded; roll for crippling (or maybe suffer dismemberment)

Originally Posted by KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads

and vision-based attacks.

Irrelevant, IT: (No eyes) doesn't protect you against vision-based attacks.

Originally Posted by KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads

b) Force Field is +20%: it protects the eyes and avoid direct contact. Colossus DR protects only the eyese, so it is cheaper.

Being cheaper than Force Field does not make it fairly priced.

Originally Posted by KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads

BTW, "Cannot be damaged unless DR is penetrated" is the standard rule. :P

You’re missing the point, if you have standard IT: (No eyes) your eyes can’t be crippled or dismembered even if your DR is penetrated, nor will you suffer the X4 wound multiplier for damage that gets through. With IT: (No Eyes; not once DR Penetrated; -60%) you can suffer all those things if the damage exceeds your DR, until till your DR is penetrated you get the benefits of IT: (No Eyes). That is the difference.

And if you going to put quotation marks around things, it should be an accurate quote, I Never said “Cannot be damaged unless DR is penetrated", I said “not once DR Penetrated” which would give you effects of having IT: (No Eyes) till you DR gets Penetrated, which is not the same thing as “Cannot be damaged unless DR is penetrated". There’s a name for this type of argument, it’s called “A Straw man”.

[KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

And with IT: (No Eyes not once DR Penetrated; -60%) he can still be blinded, that why it’s a limitation. It works like this (with his DR and hit points) with an attack to the eyes:
Damage 1-50 Ignore
Damage 51+ multiply damage by 4; Blinded; roll for crippling (or maybe suffer dismemberment)
Irrelevant, IT: (No eyes) doesn't protect you against vision-based attacks.
Being cheaper than Force Field does not make it fairly priced.
You’re missing the point, if you have standard IT: (No eyes) your eyes can’t be crippled or dismembered even if your DR is penetrated, nor will you suffer the X4 wound multiplier for damage that gets through. With IT: (No Eyes; not once DR Penetrated; -60%) you can suffer all those things if the damage exceeds your DR, until till your DR is penetrated you get the benefits of IT: (No Eyes). That is the difference.

And if you going to put quotation marks around things, it should be an accurate quote, I Never said “Cannot be damaged unless DR is penetrated", I said “not once DR Penetrated” which would give you effects of having IT: (No Eyes) till you DR gets Penetrated, which is not the same thing as “Cannot be damaged unless DR is penetrated". There’s a name for this type of argument, it’s called “A Straw man”.

Ehi, calm you please! I see your point now, but there' still a problem: you cannot add even "Not once DR penetrated" to IT, since Colossus would have no DR to the eyes without Force Field or any other suitable enhanchement. This is the standard rule: DR does not protect the eyes. "Not once DR penetrated", in that case, means "Not once eyes take damage", since (I repeat) eyes DR whithout Force Field is zero. Seems odd, but it's how rules work.
BTW, I thought that Colossus should have IT (Homogenous) instead of IT (Unliving), so I corrected it.