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Old 10-20-2013, 01:23 PM   #11
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: limitations and basic attributes?

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
Also, you can canonically buy increased DX with the No Fine Manipulators limitation, so there's your DX case.
Which DX-based skills are affected by that? And which aren't?
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:49 PM   #12
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Default Re: limitations and basic attributes?

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
Which DX-based skills are affected by that? And which aren't?
All of them, when attempting something that involves fine manipulation, you have a modifier of negative infinity.

If you want a penalty that applies per skill and not per situation, you should look at Anti-Talents, not limited Attributes.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:51 PM   #13
simply Nathan
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Default Re: limitations and basic attributes?

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
Which DX-based skills are affected by that? And which aren't?
Well I always took it as obvious that the main reason for it being a limitation is the inability to use external weapons, forcing you to rely on things built-in for combat. I would also expect it to be bothersome for knot-tying, lockpicking, and so on which make use of fine manipulation.

Wouldn't hurt Climbing, Running, Acrobatics, Boxing/Brawling/Karate, Wrestling/Sumo/Judo, or Escape. Or at least I wouldn't imagine so.
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Old 10-20-2013, 02:57 PM   #14
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: limitations and basic attributes?

Exactly my point. It's not clear-cut.
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Old 10-20-2013, 02:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: limitations and basic attributes?

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
Exactly my point. It's not clear-cut.
If you can't do it with closed fists, it's affected. Seems clear enough to me.
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Old 10-20-2013, 03:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: limitations and basic attributes?

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Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans View Post
Well I always took it as obvious that the main reason for it being a limitation is the inability to use external weapons, forcing you to rely on things built-in for combat. I would also expect it to be bothersome for knot-tying, lockpicking, and so on which make use of fine manipulation.

Wouldn't hurt Climbing, Running, Acrobatics, Boxing/Brawling/Karate, Wrestling/Sumo/Judo, or Escape. Or at least I wouldn't imagine so.
It should hurt Climbing in most cases.
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:12 PM   #17
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Default Re: limitations and basic attributes?

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It should hurt Climbing in most cases.
Goats and Cats don't have much trouble climbing with No Fine Manipulators (to name just two examples off the top of my head). It would preclude the use of climbing tools that would give skill bonuses (such as picks, ropes, harnesses, etc), but shouldn't affect Climbing skill in general.
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:38 PM   #18
lexington
 
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Default Re: limitations and basic attributes?

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Goats and Cats don't have much trouble climbing with No Fine Manipulators (to name just two examples off the top of my head). It would preclude the use of climbing tools that would give skill bonuses (such as picks, ropes, harnesses, etc), but shouldn't affect Climbing skill in general.
I've never seen a goat climb a tree or scale a wall. Mountain goat climbing is way more like hiking than anything. Cats are a better example, I admit, but I'd say that they're an exception not the rule since their claws give them a lot more fine control for that task than they would have otherwise, call it a perk. If a person with no hands scaled K2 we'd consider that impressive not common place, fine manipulators are a big part of climbing.
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Old 10-20-2013, 06:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: limitations and basic attributes?

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I've never seen a goat climb a tree or scale a wall.
The fact you don't see something doesn't mean that doesn't exist. You can find a lot of awesome pictures of goats climbing walls like this: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/...23_470x581.jpg as well.
Just google it ;)

As you can see, their climbing might suffer more from being Horizontal rather then having No Fine Manipulators. And even that doesn't hurt much.
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Old 10-20-2013, 06:11 PM   #20
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: limitations and basic attributes?

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
Which DX-based skills are affected by that? And which aren't?
Uh, all of them are affected by that. The No Fine Manipulators limitation doesn't actually modify the effects of DX (or ST, which it's also valid for), it just gives a discount.
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