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Old 08-14-2014, 09:49 PM   #401
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Oh wow man. Man it sucks that luck hasn't been too kind to ya lately. Don't worry bout us, get some rest and recoup.
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Old 08-14-2014, 09:52 PM   #402
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Oh wow man. Man it sucks that luck hasn't been too kind to ya lately. Don't worry bout us, get some rest and recoup.
Can't do that. Gotta make sure I deliver to you guys. As for Tyche? She's a harsh mistress when she wants to be - but she's still got my back. She always does. ;-)
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Old 08-14-2014, 09:53 PM   #403
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Gamemaster's Guidepost: A GM's Guide to Ritual Path Magic Spell Creation

Today's Guidepost is talking about GMing Ritual Path magic. It's kind of short and to the point because I spent most of yesterday in the ER (I had a "micro heart attack"). I'm good now and a'writing, but still trying to get back into a good rhythm. If you're a RPM GM, you might want to consider reading my little post - you might find some helpful stuff in there. Off to bed I go. Night y'all.
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Old 08-14-2014, 09:56 PM   #404
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Good luck on the healing and writing both!
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Old 08-14-2014, 10:02 PM   #405
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My best wishes for you.
Remember electricity fixes everything.
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Old 08-14-2014, 10:27 PM   #406
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Quote:
Could anyone do it given equipment and a reasonable amount of time?
I'm thinking 'no' would be more indicative of a greater effect than yes. As it stands, you have more yesses=greater effect
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Old 08-14-2014, 10:40 PM   #407
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My favorite Greater/Lesser question is 'is it the nature of?'

If it is the Nature of X to do Y, then it is probably lesser, if not, Greater. This is inspired by PK's truly awesome comments on the motorcycle parking spell, which I will try to edit in a link to later
edit - here it is! http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...orcycle&page=2

A couple other notions I find extremely helpful for DMing with RPM

1. Non binding snap judgments now, full ponder later! Noone needs to halt the game to figure spells out, especially since it is so judgment prone that theres often no concrete rule to scour the books for anyway. So, make a quick non-binding for the future decision, and if you so desire you can revisit it later. And if you change your mind about it going forward, so what, magic is fickle! Asking the forums is always a good idea to, the forums are awesome. You will think something, a player will think another, and ten different people will have twenty different interpretations on the forum, everyone wins.

2. When in doubt I will either go with the players idea on how the spell should fly, or roll randomly to see whether I go for or against. I never veto a players spell idea unless I am fully certain about a lack of fly.

3. NPCs dont need statted spells and don't need to use fully detailed dice rolling except in odd circumstances. I get a general idea of what the spell is doing '10d throwable damage' 'summons a wolf' 'heals 5d' 'grants 20 ablative DR' etc. And then based on how I guess the difficulty of the spell is relative to the persons casting ability I use the Quick and Dirty Method (roll low to avoid crit fail, roll low again to avoid quirks), no fuss, no muss. Unless I am feeling lazy, in which case I just an auto dice roller with their guessed skill vs some arbitrary energy accumulation number, since thats less work to think about than Quick and Dirty!

4. No need to go All RPM, all and only. If your happy with other forms of Magic theres nothing wrong with the odd enemy casting a Old Skool Flame Jet or Death Touch, or finding a Lighten 25% armor or a Puissance +1 sword in a horde, no need to reinvent non RPM wheels into RPM

Side Note - I find DMing for RPMists to be greatly easier than playing an RPMist, as the DM just needs to look over the players spells and wing spells for NPCs. The player needs to create all their spells in full blown statted glory and (if they are a Good RPMist player, which I am not!) come up with Spell Loadouts

(and yeah, I am one of those 'stat nothing, NPCs need not points etc etc!' type DMs for good or ill)

Altered Traits - I actually am totally cool with granting advantages etc, its easy no fuss, no muss, have an altered trait doing 'something thats right in the GURPS books everyone knows exactly what it does and on we go', seems a perfectly viable approach to things like Flight, Night Vision etc. Though Flight is easy enough to do as throwing a Control Body with Speed one expects, but Night Vision?

Innate Attacks - given that they overcome one of the big headaches of an RPMist, I certainly understand the 'lets not allow someone to grant themselves Innate Attack and call it a day', since resource management of conditionals is quite important for a combat RPMist. Though this again brings up my personal boogeyman of Spell Loadouts. (it should be noted I have often played RPMist fighter mages due to this very exact reason! Wallop someone with a sword or a gun instead of worrying about spells)

Overlarge Costs - Snap judgment and roll on, 'yeah, this seems more like a XYZ spell, roll against XYZ', theres a million ways to stat any spell, so probably if you and the player fiddled with it you could find a way to make it work within budget. That said, finding awesome ways to work within your throw weight can be a cool cool thing, so mellowing as the player tinkers and has ideas percolate can be a good thing! I am immensely proud of my alternate (and much cheaper) approach to a 'wide area light spell' from a recent game!

Rule Zero - I do Rule Zero with a strong amount of delegating, while I will assist in designing the spells and giving my thoughts and all I mostly leave it up to the player. Haven't had any real issues due to this at all. I reserve veto power of course, so it is Rule Zero. But my snap judgments and such above are as much based on me being a fairly enthusiastic student of RPM as they are DM authority, its much more often a case of

Player - Hmm, say Kal, XYZ, greater or lesser?

Than it is

Player - Heres my spell!
DM - Haha. No. Not happening.

Sorry for any confusion, I do make DM judgments and all, but far more in the Spirit of the GURPS 'roll and shout!' rules of keeping the game moving than it is in the name of game balance or keeping RPM in check

Couple extra fun suggestions!

1. Check out the Open D6 (its Free!) Vade Mecum of Magic. The D6 spell system is awesomely very similar to RPM, so it is good inspiration. And reading more about magic systems and spells has never hurt anyone.

Shameless Plug - I have been trying to work on a 'RPM In Game' thread on this forum where I have posted spells I have actually cast in game (some of them, I often don't manage it). Any contributions to such would be greatly appreciated, and I think seeing 'RPM spells as they actually happened' would be useful for all
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...highlight=game

Ghostdancer - this is an awesome topic near and dear to my heart as a frequent DM for RPMists, so I am totally psyched to see what manner of conversations erupt to fill this thread with glee, sweet post!

Last edited by Kalzazz; 08-16-2014 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:20 PM   #408
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Default Re: Ravens N' Pennies - GURPS Content Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwarf99 View Post
I'm thinking 'no' would be more indicative of a greater effect than yes. As it stands, you have more yesses=greater effect
That is a iteration error - I have fixed it. Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
My favorite Greater/Lesser question is 'is it the nature of?'

If it is the Nature of X to do Y, then it is probably lesser, if not, Greater. This is inspired by PK's truly awesome comments on the motorcycle parking spell, which I will try to edit in a link to later
edit - here it is! http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...orcycle&page=2
Another good way to judge a spell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
1. Non binding snap judgments now, full ponder later! Noone needs to halt the game to figure spells out, especially since it is so judgment prone that theres often no concrete rule to scour the books for anyway. So, make a quick non-binding for the future decision, and if you so desire you can revisit it later. And if you change your mind about it going forward, so what, magic is fickle! Asking the forums is always a good idea to, the forums are awesome. You will think something, a player will think another, and ten different people will have twenty different interpretations on the forum, everyone wins.
I agree with this 100% freaking percent. My players know that if I change my mind about something later than it's not me nerfing them - it's me calibrating my GMing style and their game and they are 100% fine with that too.

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
2. When in doubt I will either go with the players idea on how the spell should fly, or roll randomly to see whether I go for or against. I never veto a players spell idea unless I am fully certain about a lack of fly.
This is a good point I missed and very important. If you do nothing but tell a player "No" he's going to stop asking and eventually he's going to stop want to play RPM-capable characters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
3. NPCs dont need statted spells and don't need to use fully detailed dice rolling except in odd circumstances. I get a general idea of what the spell is doing '10d throwable damage' 'summons a wolf' 'heals 5d' 'grants 20 ablative DR' etc. And then based on how I guess the difficulty of the spell is relative to the persons casting ability I use the Quick and Dirty Method (roll low to avoid crit fail, roll low again to avoid quirks), no fuss, no muss. Unless I am feeling lazy, in which case I just an auto dice roller with their guessed skill vs some arbitrary energy accumulation number, since thats less work to think about than Quick and Dirty!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
(and yeah, I am one of those 'stat nothing, NPCs need not points etc etc!' type DMs for good or ill)
This depends. I have a very fine distinction for my NPCs: if I plan on ever letting the player characters use it at any point it gets stated up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
4. No need to go All RPM, all and only. If your happy with other forms of Magic theres nothing wrong with the odd enemy casting a Old Skool Flame Jet or Death Touch, or finding a Lighten 25% armor or a Puissance +1 sword in a horde, no need to reinvent non RPM wheels into RPM
I'm not parsing this well, are you saying just use the Magic version of the spells or just the effects or what?

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Side Note - I find DMing for RPMists to be greatly easier than playing an RPMist, as the DM just needs to look over the players spells and wing spells for NPCs. The player needs to create all their spells in full blown statted glory and (if they are a Good RPMist player, which I am not!) come up with Spell Loadouts
Ya. My players don't mind coming up with spells on their own, but they prefer to let me do it (and I don't mind). They get a grimoire full of spells they use often and then we do the improv casting together. Easier that way I think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Altered Traits - I actually am totally cool with granting advantages etc, its easy no fuss, no muss, have an altered trait doing 'something thats right in the GURPS books everyone knows exactly what it does and on we go', seems a perfectly viable approach to things like Flight, Night Vision etc. Though Flight is easy enough to do as throwing a Control Body with Speed one expects, but Night Vision?
I'd call that a Altered Trait as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Innate Attacks - given that they overcome one of the big headaches of an RPMist, I certainly understand the 'lets not allow someone to grant themselves Innate Attack and call it a day', since resource management of conditionals is quite important for a combat RPMist. Though this again brings up my personal boogeyman of Spell Loadouts. (it should be noted I have often played RPMist fighter mages due to this very exact reason! Wallop someone with a sword or a gun instead of worrying about spells)
Yerp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Overlarge Costs - Snap judgment and roll on, 'yeah, this seems more like a XYZ spell, roll against XYZ', theres a million ways to stat any spell, so probably if you and the player fiddled with it you could find a way to make it work within budget. That said, finding awesome ways to work within your throw weight can be a cool cool thing, so mellowing as the player tinkers and has ideas percolate can be a good thing! I am immensely proud of my alternate (and much cheaper) approach to a 'wide area light spell' from a recent game!
Again, my players are cool with me saying "That was too much for this spell, I'm calling it X instead" and we move on with the campaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Rule Zero - I do Rule Zero with a strong amount of delegating, while I will assist in designing the spells and giving my thoughts and all I mostly leave it up to the player. Haven't had any real issues due to this at all. I reserve veto power of course, so it is Rule Zero. But my snap judgments and such above are as much based on me being a fairly enthusiastic student of RPM as they are DM authority, its much more often a case of

Player - Hmm, say Kal, XYZ, greater or lesser?

Than it is

Player - Heres my spell!
DM - Haha. No. Not happening.
I don't have gamers that do this any more - but yeah, I'm pretty much the same way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Sorry for any confusion, I do make DM judgments and all, but far more in the Spirit of the GURPS 'roll and shout!' rules of keeping the game moving than it is in the name of game balance or keeping RPM in check
Most of my guidelines have come from a seat of the pants GMing perspective. The codification only happens later on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
1. Check out the Open D6 (its Free!) Vade Mecum of Magic. The D6 spell system is awesomely very similar to RPM, so it is good inspiration. And reading more about magic systems and spells has never hurt anyone.
I'll add it to my list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Shameless Plug - I have been trying to work on a 'RPM In Game' thread on this forum where I have posted spells I have actually cast in game (some of them, I often don't manage it). Any contributions to such would be greatly appreciated, and I think seeing 'RPM spells as they actually happened' would be useful for all
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...highlight=game
I follow along, but I typically save my spell write ups for my blog or articles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Ghostdancer - this is an awesome topic near and dear to my heart as a frequent DM for RPMists, so I am totally psyched to see what manner of conversations erupt to fill this thread with glee, sweet post!
I'll probably do a follow-up of some type - it seems pretty popular.
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Last edited by Christopher R. Rice; 08-16-2014 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:18 PM   #409
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On the statting if players can use it

A. I figure this being GURPS, anything can be statted, only the cost is in doubht.
B. NPCs don't need points, so I don't care about cost!
C. Since it can be statted, if the PCs ever want it, then and only then need it be statted!

A good example of this was actually from Starslayer, he came up with a monster that he just slapped down 400 HP or so on as a wriggling mass of unworldly tentacles when it was fighting a meleeist PC. When a player wanted to use a similar build, they discussed it and decided to use Diffuse instead to get the same effect of 'can take a bunch of discrete hits to hack it up'. So thus, the DM had an idea that worked fine as a monster, and later, when a player wanted to use it as a PC, got refined into a good PC workable idea because well, this be GURPS.

That said, my personal thoughts on statting definitely run to 'if it is statted, it should be PC usable or workable towards that end!', the old D6 Star Wars game love love loved putting 'not available for sale' prices on just about everything, and I was always NOOO! If you put stats on something put a price so people can buy it!

On PC vs DM spell creation I am just about the opposite of you I expect! I am a very firm believer in 'if the player wants to be a caster/whatever, it is upon them to deal with being it!', so, while in the case of RPM I am perfectly willing to help the player stat out spells and things and provide my advice and such, its because I'm someone that likes RPM, not because I'm the DM. If its a spell system I don't know very well (say Path/Book or Realm), its all on the player, I smile and nod and roll dice when they tell me and they handle it all. I am more than willing to help out if there new and don't know it, or to just help out as a peer and such, but they need to make a honest effort at it. I have actually told one player after about 2 years of playing Mages in GURPS without learning GURPS Magic and relying on me to look up all the spells etc either they needed to learn it or stop playing mages (this was Pre RPM!). Note - I don't try to be harsh about it or expect perfection, I'm far from a RPM Genius myself! I just ask that people try.

I actually handle the Ally advantage the same way!


On Parsing and Magic Magic vs RPM Magic.
I was more saying that I am perfectly cool with Magic Magic being used alongside RPM Magic. If a Magic Magic Flame Jet or Puissance is good enough theres no need to use RPM for it, it flows nicely and smoothly together. I have seen much hassle result from people trying to reinvent wheels into RPM, especially for DMing, and I figure if you want to have a Mage cast Magic spells, just have them cast Magic spells, and if you want a Puissance +1 sword in the loot pile, have it be there. RPM may be new, shiny and awesome, but when you have a nail an Old Skool Hammer can be just as good as a new one

RPM In Game - Yeah, I understand why you don't post much stuff there, no worries! However, I think the idea behind the thread could be useful for you to potentially. It seems (to me at least) so much of discussion seems to be in an infinite featureless plain devoid of context. It is thus cool to actually see 'Here is what Jaina the Mageling cast, heres why, and heres what happened'. Not in any elaborate detail or such, just to give an idea of how RPM can actually happen!
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:24 PM   #410
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Default Re: Ravens N' Pennies - GURPS Content Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
My best wishes for you.
Remember electricity fixes everything.
Thanks. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
On the statting if players can use it

A. I figure this being GURPS, anything can be statted, only the cost is in doubht.
B. NPCs don't need points, so I don't care about cost!
C. Since it can be statted, if the PCs ever want it, then and only then need it be statted!

A good example of this was actually from Starslayer, he came up with a monster that he just slapped down 400 HP or so on as a wriggling mass of unworldly tentacles when it was fighting a meleeist PC. When a player wanted to use a similar build, they discussed it and decided to use Diffuse instead to get the same effect of 'can take a bunch of discrete hits to hack it up'. So thus, the DM had an idea that worked fine as a monster, and later, when a player wanted to use it as a PC, got refined into a good PC workable idea because well, this be GURPS.

That said, my personal thoughts on statting definitely run to 'if it is statted, it should be PC usable or workable towards that end!', the old D6 Star Wars game love love loved putting 'not available for sale' prices on just about everything, and I was always NOOO! If you put stats on something put a price so people can buy it!

On PC vs DM spell creation I am just about the opposite of you I expect! I am a very firm believer in 'if the player wants to be a caster/whatever, it is upon them to deal with being it!', so, while in the case of RPM I am perfectly willing to help the player stat out spells and things and provide my advice and such, its because I'm someone that likes RPM, not because I'm the DM. If its a spell system I don't know very well (say Path/Book or Realm), its all on the player, I smile and nod and roll dice when they tell me and they handle it all. I am more than willing to help out if there new and don't know it, or to just help out as a peer and such, but they need to make a honest effort at it. I have actually told one player after about 2 years of playing Mages in GURPS without learning GURPS Magic and relying on me to look up all the spells etc either they needed to learn it or stop playing mages (this was Pre RPM!). Note - I don't try to be harsh about it or expect perfection, I'm far from a RPM Genius myself! I just ask that people try.

I actually handle the Ally advantage the same way!


On Parsing and Magic Magic vs RPM Magic.
I was more saying that I am perfectly cool with Magic Magic being used alongside RPM Magic. If a Magic Magic Flame Jet or Puissance is good enough theres no need to use RPM for it, it flows nicely and smoothly together. I have seen much hassle result from people trying to reinvent wheels into RPM, especially for DMing, and I figure if you want to have a Mage cast Magic spells, just have them cast Magic spells, and if you want a Puissance +1 sword in the loot pile, have it be there. RPM may be new, shiny and awesome, but when you have a nail an Old Skool Hammer can be just as good as a new one

RPM In Game - Yeah, I understand why you don't post much stuff there, no worries! However, I think the idea behind the thread could be useful for you to potentially. It seems (to me at least) so much of discussion seems to be in an infinite featureless plain devoid of context. It is thus cool to actually see 'Here is what Jaina the Mageling cast, heres why, and heres what happened'. Not in any elaborate detail or such, just to give an idea of how RPM can actually happen!
I actually had similar issues when I switched a campaign from standard spell magic over to RPM...so much so that I converted the whole damn book and told my players "OKay, RPM rules, but only these spells are allowed" then several months later after one of the players did something she didn't think she could she asked to experiment and I said "Okay, same spells...but you can vary stuff and add stuff." Eventually they got to the point where they used the full RPM system and "rote magic" (as I called spell magic) no longer existed because magic itself fractured and created something new. My players loved it. Ate it out of my hands like candy. It was one of my better moments as a GM.
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