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Old 09-06-2013, 10:45 AM   #1
bokenboy
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Default Wandering Monster/Negotiating Help

Me and my friends recently started playing Munchkin. Last week, I was facing a monster I wasn't strong enough to beat. I negotiated with another player for her to help me. After the agreement was made, a third player player used a Wondering Monster card and added a really powerful 2nd monster to the fight (level 20+). The player I made the deal with said she would continue to help me, but demanded all the treasure from the additional monster. Based on all of that, here are my questions:

1) Once you negotiate a deal with a player for assistance, can the terms of the deal be changed after the fact (i.e. could the player offering assistance demand the additional treasure, or does the player have to stick to the original terms of the deal)?

2) With Wondering Monster, do you receive the benefits from beating the additional monster(s) (i.e. additional sets of levels/treasure), or only the benefits from the original monster?

3) Can more than one monster be added using the Wondering Monster card?
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:57 AM   #2
Mister Ed
 
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Default Re: Wondering Monster/Negotiating Help

1.) In general, once they have agreed to help, they are stuck helping no matter what else happens in the combat. There are very few ways for a helper to back out once they are in a combat. AND they are stuck with the same deal they negotiated in the beginning, too. I think the Munchkin whose combat it is CAN offer to sweeten that deal, if they want to convince their helper to take extra action (or not to sabotage the combat) when circumstances change, but they are not obligated to. And it is important to note that your helper, even if they came along willingly, is only obligated to stay in the combat and add their Combat Strength to yours. There is nothing that forces them to actually be helpful beyond that, and it is not at all unheard of for a helper to do things to try to make their side LOSE, if the circumstances warrant it (especially if they aren't subject to the Monster(s) Bad Stuff).

2.) Yes, you get the treasure and Levels from all Monsters that you defeat, unless some card says otherwise.

3.) Only one Monster can be added with a Wandering Monster card, but if somebody has ANOTHER Wandering Monster card, they can use it to add another monster. There is no limit to the number of Monsters that can be added to a combat, provided there is a legal means to do so, and there are several legal ways to add Monsters besides Wandering Monster, depending on what set you are playing with.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:25 AM   #3
MunchkinMan
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Default Re: Wondering Monster/Negotiating Help

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Originally Posted by bokenboy View Post
2) With Wondering Monster, do you receive the benefits from beating the additional monster(s) (i.e. additional sets of levels/treasure), or only the benefits from the original monster?
The rules specifically say that if you kill a Monster, you get its Level and Treasure rewards. So, if you kill 2, 3, or even more Monsters, that simple rule extends: Did you kill the first Monster? Yes, so you get all the rewards for that Monster. Did you kill the second Monster? Yes, so you get all the rewards for that Monster. And, so on for each Monster you killed. In fact, for you to not get the rewards for defeating multiple Monsters in combat, the rules would actually have to say that, not the other way around.

Obviously, if you defeat a Monster without killing it, then you'll only get the rewards for that Monster that the way you defeated it allows (Magic Lamp, Pollymorph Potion, and the Wizard's charm spell only give Treasure), but the same process I described above applies for defeats that aren't deadly.

And to be absolutely clear about one of your other questions (get ready for crazy amounts of emphasis): A helper cannot leave combat of his own free will once he's agreed to join combat. Getting to leave combat always requires a rule on a card. Some cards let you leave, some force you to leave and force another player to fight instead, some Monsters must be fought alone, and thus let the helper leave without penalty, and if an ability that forced a player to help can not be used for the winning Level, then the helper must leave (again without penalty) once the winning Level will be rewarded to the player who used that ability. So, renegotiation for the player's basic help is not necessary, nor should the helper think he should be allowed to renegotiate for his basic help. If he could scuttle the combat, or save it, maybe he's got something he can bargain with, but he's not leaving that combat just because he wants to do so.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:40 PM   #4
Michelle
 
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Default Re: Wandering Monster/Negotiating Help

As the second player in bokenboy's scenario I need to clarify a few points.

When the second monster was added I didn't try to back out of the help we negotiated. That help had already been given. The second monster added 2 levels and 4 treasures to the prize. Bokenboy didn't have the cards to defeat him. I did but it would have cleaned me out. I told bokenboy I would play the cards to defeat the second monster for the additional 4 treasures (he was getting the levels). The THIRD player (not party to our deal) objected to our renegotiating and insisted I had to stick to the original deal - meaning I was cleaning out my hand for 2nd and 4th treasure while Jim got 3 levels and 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, & 8th treasure.

I still maintain it's perfectly valid to renegotiate the division of spoils when circumstances change (monsters are added). That's the real question we need answered.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:42 PM   #5
Michelle
 
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Default Re: Wandering Monster/Negotiating Help

another thing - the choice didn't include leaving combat. It was between further help or running away.....
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Old 09-06-2013, 01:14 PM   #6
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Wandering Monster/Negotiating Help

The deal for helping in combat is between the two players in the combat. If they want to renegotiate the deal because circumstances change, they are welcome to do so.
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Old 09-06-2013, 01:38 PM   #7
Mister Ed
 
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Default Re: Wandering Monster/Negotiating Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle View Post
As the second player in bokenboy's scenario I need to clarify a few points.

When the second monster was added I didn't try to back out of the help we negotiated. That help had already been given. The second monster added 2 levels and 4 treasures to the prize. Bokenboy didn't have the cards to defeat him. I did but it would have cleaned me out. I told bokenboy I would play the cards to defeat the second monster for the additional 4 treasures (he was getting the levels). The THIRD player (not party to our deal) objected to our renegotiating and insisted I had to stick to the original deal - meaning I was cleaning out my hand for 2nd and 4th treasure while Jim got 3 levels and 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, & 8th treasure.

I still maintain it's perfectly valid to renegotiate the division of spoils when circumstances change (monsters are added). That's the real question we need answered.
That seems legitimate. You are not in any way obligated to offer any assistance in the combat beyond adding your current combat strength. I see no difficulty in refusing to do anything more unless the combat owner sweetens the deal, as long as one recognizes that they get the final say on whether the original deal is altered.
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Old 09-06-2013, 01:48 PM   #8
MunchkinMan
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Default Re: Wandering Monster/Negotiating Help

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Originally Posted by Michelle View Post
I still maintain it's perfectly valid to renegotiate the division of spoils when circumstances change (monsters are added). That's the real question we need answered.
And the answer was given three times, twice by those who can say things from an official standpoint (Andrew and myself), to your benefit.
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Old 09-16-2015, 05:32 PM   #9
Msaylor92
 
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Default Renegotiating terms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard View Post
The deal for helping in combat is between the two players in the combat. If they want to renegotiate the deal because circumstances change, they are welcome to do so.
I was helping a friend beat a monster that had 3 treasure. The deal was he gets to choose his 1 treasure and I get 2 treasure. A third party played a -5 to monster making the monster only worth 2 treasure. What determines who gets what considering the agreement. The person whose battle it is or the helper?

We understand that when there is extra treasure that the deal stands unless the person whose battle it is decides to sweeten the deal to make the other person make a difference in the win.

Last edited by Msaylor92; 09-16-2015 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 09-16-2015, 06:05 PM   #10
MunchkinMan
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Default Re: Wandering Monster/Negotiating Help

Well, your agreement was for him to get first pick of one Treasure, and you would get the rest, so you'd get one, he'd get one.
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