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Old 08-20-2013, 03:07 PM   #1
Enzzo
 
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Default Whine at the GM used on another player

Can the highest-level player use Whine at the GM on another player, who is not highest or tied for highest?

My wife was level 8 and I was level 5. The 3rd player was level 6. She wanted to use the card on me so that she wouldn't have to give me a certain card as Charity. Since I would then be tied for lowest, instead of being the lowest, she'd distribute her 2 Charity cards evenly among me and the third player, instead of having to give me both.

The wording on the card made made me wonder as to the validity of this play. At the time I figured it was a legal move, but she asked me to check to see what you guys thought :)
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Whine at the GM used on another player

"You" is referring to the target player who is benefiting from the card, so she played it correctly.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: Whine at the GM used on another player

I disagree with Brf. MunchkinMan ruled here that the person playing GUALs with extra costs is the one that pays the cost. It logically follows from that ruling that the person playing the card is the one on which conditions hold too.

Thus, I don't think Whine at GM can be played on any player if you happen to have the highest Level.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Whine at the GM used on another player

Oh. What is the cost on WatGM, that the victim pays?
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: Whine at the GM used on another player

This one's wording is interestingly phrased as something like, "you can't use this card," which the player playing it is not technically doing, but the player that has had it played on him is. . .
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: Whine at the GM used on another player

So it seems Erik agrees that it was a legit play. Thanks :)
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Whine at the GM used on another player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brf View Post
Oh. What is the cost on WatGM, that the victim pays?
It's not a cost, but a condition. Clipper is equating paying a cost with satisfying a condition. I agree. If you "play" a Curse! on someone, it stands to reason you are "playing" the GUAL on them as well.

Does the card say, "You can't play" or, "You can't use?" Either way, I think it's the same thing.

If I'm not mistaken, the ability to play a GUAL on another player was added as a response to a Frequently Asked Question which was most likely after the card was written, so the situation was probably not considered.

(All my speculation and opinion, of course.)
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:28 PM   #8
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Whine at the GM used on another player

Whine at the GM may be played on any player who is not currently the highest Level or tied for the highest Level. Official ruling.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: Whine at the GM used on another player

Edit: the following post was made before seeing Andrew's ruling. I'll accept that, but won't apply it to other GUALs as a general rule, for the reasons pointed out below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bampop View Post
Does the card say, "You can't play" or, "You can't use?" Either way, I think it's the same thing.
It says you can't use it. I was thinking the same way as you, that using a GUAL is equivalent to playing it, but now I'm unsure.

To help solve the dilemma, here's some other GUALs that use the word 'use' with their effects paraphrased:

Kill the Hireling - You can only use this when there is a Hireling in play.
Switch Character Sheets - Same wording as Whine at the GM
Feed GM's Dice Habit/Hurt GM's Brain/Peek at the Scenario/Reincarnate Without Dying First - Instead of getting a level, you can use the card (only outside combat) to get a certain type of card from the discard pile.
Master Your Fears - Instead of getting a level, use the card to discard Phobias.
Get New Indian Name - Indians cannot use the card, but they can trade it to another player for an Item.
Heroic Angst - You need to discard a Sidekick to use this card.
Rescue Kitten/Rescue Little Suzy - You may use it on yourself, or play it on another player during combat for an effect
Learn From Experience - Can only be used after you have lost cards or a level.
Mock Humans for the Cattle They Are - Can't be used by a Human

I think most of those, especially Get New Indian Name (why would you need to trade them the card if you could play it on them instead), only work if we equate the word 'use' with 'play', which unfortunately does not gel with MunchkinMan's interpretation...

Edit: But Andrew's ruling does solve the conundrum for the card in question. I'm not going to use it as a general rule to apply to those other cards, though.
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Last edited by Clipper; 08-20-2013 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: Whine at the GM used on another player

Clipper don't forget Mutilate Bodies (I think that is the title) which is used after a combat.
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