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Old 07-23-2013, 10:18 AM   #1
Gidoza
 
Join Date: May 2013
Default Retreating With A Steed: Modifiers

Need For Steed states that the Run Away roll of a Steed replaces that of the player's bonuses, and gives the example of an Elf. Well, I'd like to know how far this extends, because the example wasn't broad enough to clarify matters for our game: the example doesn't clarify for items, for sure. So, here's some clarifiers...please let me know which of these are correct.

1. Steed with +1 to Run Away and Elf is +1 to Run Away, Elf bonus is negated, total is +1 to Run Away.
2. Steed is -1 to Run Away and Elf is +1 to Run Away, Elf bonus is negated, total is -1 to Run Away.

A. Player has Bag of Caltrops. Caltrops can be dropped on the ground, and don't affect the player's own movement. Result should be +1 to Run Away added to whatever the Steed bonus is.
B. Player has Tuba of Charm. Tuba can be played while on a Steed's back, so the +3 to Run Away would apply.
C. Player has Boots of Running Really Fast. The player wears these Boots on his own feet - and presumably, the Steed cannot use these Boots - so the +2 to Run Away bonus does NOT apply in this situation.

3. Even though the Wolf Steed has no Run Away bonus applied to it, an Elf would nonetheless be riding on the Wolf's back, and therefore not running away himself. Consequently, the Elf's +1 to Run Away bonus would not apply: the roll would be a standard roll because the Wolf has no bonus.



Alternative Question...

The Raptor states that it charges into battle, so the player cannot run away: suffer the Bad Stuff. Yet, here, depending on what item one is using, it could be interpreted that some auto-run items could work and others couldn't for the scenario.

4. An Invisibility Potion is used only after rolling to run away. Someone using a Raptor cannot even roll, so this potion could not be used. In a practical scenario, the Raptor would keep attacking even while invisible until the potion wore off, and then the monsters would catch it.
5. An Instant Wall has no roll involved, but suggests automatic escape, and I would assume that this DOES work for the Raptor. In a practical scenario, a wall simply appears between the Raptor and the monsters, and the Raptor can no longer go after them: the player is safe.
6. Baby Oil, like Instant Wall, has no roll involved, so this should also work. In a practical scenario, everyone would be slip-sliding everywhere, and the Raptor's efforts at engaging foes would be useless. The player would be safe.
7. Sacrificing a Hireling would let the monsters go after the Hireling...but this still doesn't stop the Raptor from charging the opponents anyways. Tossing a Hireling is supposed to distract the opponents while the player runs, but with a Raptor around, the Raptor isn't running. Hirelings would not save the player if he is using a Raptor.



Have I analyzed these situations correctly? These are technical details that aren't obvious in the instructions...
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Retreating With A Steed: Modifiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gidoza View Post
Need For Steed states that the Run Away roll of a Steed replaces that of the player's bonuses, and gives the example of an Elf. Well, I'd like to know how far this extends, because the example wasn't broad enough to clarify matters for our game: the example doesn't clarify for items, for sure. So, here's some clarifiers...please let me know which of these are correct.
The general rule, officially stated, is that your entire modifier is replaced and you apply no logic as to what would still work or not on the Steed, but only if the Steed has any modifier, but I'll still address these below.

Quote:
1. Steed with +1 to Run Away and Elf is +1 to Run Away, Elf bonus is negated, total is +1 to Run Away.
2. Steed is -1 to Run Away and Elf is +1 to Run Away, Elf bonus is negated, total is -1 to Run Away.
Correct.

Quote:
A. Player has Bag of Caltrops. Caltrops can be dropped on the ground, and don't affect the player's own movement. Result should be +1 to Run Away added to whatever the Steed bonus is.
B. Player has Tuba of Charm. Tuba can be played while on a Steed's back, so the +3 to Run Away would apply.
C. Player has Boots of Running Really Fast. The player wears these Boots on his own feet - and presumably, the Steed cannot use these Boots - so the +2 to Run Away bonus does NOT apply in this situation.
A and B are incorrect. They are ignored too.

Quote:
3. Even though the Wolf Steed has no Run Away bonus applied to it, an Elf would nonetheless be riding on the Wolf's back, and therefore not running away himself. Consequently, the Elf's +1 to Run Away bonus would not apply: the roll would be a standard roll because the Wolf has no bonus.
This is incorrect. The rules say that only Steeds that have a bonus or penalty replace your bonus or penalty. The Run Away bonus here would be +1. This has also been officially stated by MunchkinMan in several threads, although my search terms are currently pulling up too many results to pinpoint one for you.


Quote:
Alternative Question...

The Raptor states that it charges into battle, so the player cannot run away: suffer the Bad Stuff. Yet, here, depending on what item one is using, it could be interpreted that some auto-run items could work and others couldn't for the scenario.
I doubt that any method of automatic escape would work here, even the ones that can be used when escape is impossible. The Raptor Steed states that you just take the Bad Stuff if you want to keep the Steed, so it seems to remove all chance for escape.

Quote:
4. An Invisibility Potion is used only after rolling to run away. Someone using a Raptor cannot even roll, so this potion could not be used. In a practical scenario, the Raptor would keep attacking even while invisible until the potion wore off, and then the monsters would catch it.
5. An Instant Wall has no roll involved, but suggests automatic escape, and I would assume that this DOES work for the Raptor. In a practical scenario, a wall simply appears between the Raptor and the monsters, and the Raptor can no longer go after them: the player is safe.
6. Baby Oil, like Instant Wall, has no roll involved, so this should also work. In a practical scenario, everyone would be slip-sliding everywhere, and the Raptor's efforts at engaging foes would be useless. The player would be safe.
7. Sacrificing a Hireling would let the monsters go after the Hireling...but this still doesn't stop the Raptor from charging the opponents anyways. Tossing a Hireling is supposed to distract the opponents while the player runs, but with a Raptor around, the Raptor isn't running. Hirelings would not save the player if he is using a Raptor.
For the reason I stated above, I don't think any of these work. Even if I'm taking the wording of Raptor Steed just a little too literally, the only ones that could potentially work would be Baby Oil and sacrificing a Hireling, as they are the ones that say they can be used when escape is impossible, while the others can't.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:51 PM   #3
Gidoza
 
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Default Re: Retreating With A Steed: Modifiers

Ok, thanks. Could I clarify one more thing as well?

The Wings Steed Enhancer...this adds a Run Away bonus. Does this Run Away bonus add to the bonus of a Steed, or replace it? And if the Steed has no natural Run Away bonus, does this bonus overrule other Run Away bonuses such as on Elf, or is it cumulative with them? I won't go through all the permutations this time, but I think you understand the depth of this question...
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:01 AM   #4
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Default Re: Retreating With A Steed: Modifiers

It adds to the Run Away bonus or penalty of the Steed. If the Steed now has a bonus or penalty, it will replace that of your character.

Now, if you had a Turtle Steed (normally -1 to Run Away) with Press-On Wings... I don't know if the resultant +0 to Run Away is considered a bonus or not... That will likely need official clarification, although I'd go with it not having a bonus or penalty, so it doesn't replace any your character has. That provides consistency with rulings like the Boomdagger (listed as 0 Hands) not being an Item that uses Hands, but I could very well be wrong...
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:32 AM   #5
Gidoza
 
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Default Re: Retreating With A Steed: Modifiers

Heh, okay. (I do wish that more of these things were clear in the first place, but anyways...)

One last clarification. When using the WIZARD ability to Run Away while using a Steed with a Run Away bonus or penalty...well, rather, CAN you use the Wizard ability for bonus Run Away points in this situation?
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:34 AM   #6
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Retreating With A Steed: Modifiers

The Wizard ability modifies the die roll after you make it, so it will work fine.

(I assume you're using the 2010-era updated rules; if not, you need to make that clear in your posts. Also, you should update.)
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Old 07-24-2013, 01:07 PM   #7
Gidoza
 
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Default Re: Retreating With A Steed: Modifiers

I've only bought any Munchkin packs since this summer, so I presume they're updated. :P
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:34 AM   #8
Tmeh
 
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Default Re: Retreating With A Steed: Modifiers

Hi,
Sorry to bring this back up. But what is the official ruling now?

Kind regards
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Old 07-13-2017, 08:25 AM   #9
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Retreating With A Steed: Modifiers

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Originally Posted by Tmeh View Post
Hi,
Sorry to bring this back up. But what is the official ruling now?
If you have a specific question, please ask it in a new post. We frown hard on thread necromancy.

I don't see anything in here that would have been overruled recently.
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