Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-12-2013, 10:30 PM   #1
Xplo
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Default Alternate Talent pricing for math heads

So I was thinking about how 15-point Talents are generally overpriced compared to DX or IQ, how 10-point Talents are iffy, and how you're better off buying pure attributes than multiple Talents.

Proposed new Talent cost: number of skills ^ .5 * 2. Keep the 5-point cost floor if players would abuse its absence. This makes Talents with up to five skills cost the same as the alternate costs in Power-Ups 3 and then fall behind. Raise IQ to 25 points/level to better reflect its true value.

Incidentally, I counted 131 IQ skills (counting "families" of required specializations as one skill for the purpose), giving a cost of 23/level as a Talent, and 82 DX skills, giving a cost of 19/level, which is pretty close to their actual costs (if you include my proposed IQ cost increase). All things considered, pure attributes offer more bang for buck, but only if you're making a polymath - as it should be.

An "everything" Talent, for 244 skills, would be 32 points. So the next time someone wants to know what a +1 to any skill roll is worth in CP, there's a baseline...
Xplo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 10:57 PM   #2
Not
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Default Re: Alternate Talent pricing for math heads

Since talents are a way of discounting skills bought in bulk, which runs against the grain of GURPS' general way of doing business, I'm inclined simply not to allow talents other than those listed in the book. The text suggests a sports talent, but to me that's just DX.

Er, sorry to be down on your idea.
Not is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 11:10 PM   #3
Xplo
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Default Re: Alternate Talent pricing for math heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not View Post
Since talents are a way of discounting skills bought in bulk, which runs against the grain of GURPS' general way of doing business, I'm inclined simply not to allow talents other than those listed in the book. The text suggests a sports talent, but to me that's just DX.

Er, sorry to be down on your idea.
I disagree, obviously - but if that's how you feel, why allow the ones in the book?
Xplo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 11:12 PM   #4
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Alternate Talent pricing for math heads

Have you looked at the alternative pricing rules in PU3?
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 11:12 PM   #5
Johnny Angel
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Default Re: Alternate Talent pricing for math heads

How much are the reaction bonuses worth?
Johnny Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 11:22 PM   #6
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Alternate Talent pricing for math heads

The problem with talents is that their value isn't strictly a function of how many skills they are -- it's with what skills they are. A talent with a bunch of skills that are of marginal value, are highly redundant, have glaring gaps that will have to be filled in, or have a lot of shared defaults just isn't ever going to be that valuable. By comparison, the 'every skill I want to be good at' talent is fairly valuable.

The reaction bonus is basically Reputation (small or large class -- most examples are small class), at 5/3 or 5/2 per level.

Last edited by Anthony; 05-12-2013 at 11:25 PM.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 11:30 PM   #7
NineDaysDead
 
NineDaysDead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Alternate Talent pricing for math heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not View Post
Since talents are a way of discounting skills bought in bulk, which runs against the grain of GURPS' general way of doing business, I'm inclined simply not to allow talents other than those listed in the book.
Which book?
__________________
Ebaying:
NineDaysDead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 11:39 PM   #8
Xplo
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Default Re: Alternate Talent pricing for math heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Have you looked at the alternative pricing rules in PU3?
I have. Didn't I reference them? I recall them being, basically, 1 point per skill, minimum 5. Which still leaves the problem that the big Talents are too pricy compared to attributes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The problem with talents is that their value isn't strictly a function of how many skills they are -- it's with what skills they are. A talent with a bunch of skills that are of marginal value, are highly redundant, have glaring gaps that will have to be filled in, or have a lot of shared defaults just isn't ever going to be that valuable. By comparison, the 'every skill I want to be good at' talent is fairly valuable.
Well, first of all, the point of Talents is to be useful to the character who takes them, and to give that character a defined field of expertise or ability. RAW warn against "me talents", but if you don't want at least most of the skills in a Talent, why would you take it? I think this is a case where the RAW miss the point by erring on the side of caution.

As to the point that some skills are more useful than others, I can't think of any mechanic that can alleviate that, other than pricing skills by utility (yeah, that gigantic can of worms, which I don't intend to argue for). If you think a particular Talent is overpriced for its utility, either don't take it, or go to your GM and make a case for lowering the cost.
Xplo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 04:05 AM   #9
Ultraviolet
 
Ultraviolet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Århus, Denmark
Default Re: Alternate Talent pricing for math heads

The point of Talents is to allow a character to be highly skilled in a narrow field of skills rather than investing broadly in Attributes and by association being skilled in many fields.
Such generalists are IM HO trite and boring, and makes characters in a party too similar.

Imagine a campaign about spacefarers. The engineer, diplomat, and planetary surveyor all rely omn IQ based skills, so they invest heavily in IQ and may end up with similar stats. So they all have the same defaults in all fields not covered by their skills, also in those related to the other guys' fields (unless we talk about defaults from skills).
So when the engineer needs to machine a part to fix the reactor, and uses pure IQ default to Machinist he might as well let the diplomat get his hands dirty because they are equally skilled.
However had they used Talents the Engineer's might have included this skill.

I know this is putting things on the edge, since skills within same fields often default to other skills. But still.

Talents are a thing I (once I saw them in 4th ed) sorely missed back in 4th ed. There were a few advantages back then in 3rd ed that could help you: Mathematical Ability for techs and engineers, Musical Ability, Double Jointed for thieves and stage magicians.

And I use them a lot.
Say in my Cliffhangers campaign, the action-oriented explorer type can avoid being a total brain as well but cover his most vital science skills with a talent, save some points and focus on being tough, have good reflexes etc.
__________________
Playing GURPS since '90, is now fluent in 4th ed as well.
Ultraviolet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 06:00 AM   #10
smurf
Finding Neo
 
smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bristol
Default Re: Alternate Talent pricing for math heads

I like talents.

Invented with Magery. A talent for power of magic. This means you do not need massive smart Mages all the time. Or semi smart ones at least.

Psi talents: One for each disicpline, therefore 2 disicplines are going to make you think about cost. Again not allowing for the bulbous brains of sci fi to do mind powers on mere mortals.

Ergo... other talents. Specialised in a narrow field.

It just means that a lot of characters do not have to be near olympic to do anything which is cool.

Moutain Climber: Climb, Absail (repelling?) repair ropes, tie knots and there could be more I cannot think of.

The (Clifton) gorge near where I live has people scrambling up and down it almost all year around. And yet we can say not many of them are built like heros but everyday people enjoying a sport. From easy up to 20 HVS+ routes.
__________________
You know I am a socialist
http://www.swp.org.uk/
http://www.swp.org.uk/about-us
http://www.swp.org.uk/links/internat...alist-tendency I thought I have some links to hand ;P
smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
attributes, house rules, sagatafl, talent

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.