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Old 04-19-2013, 08:55 AM   #31
Gnome
 
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Default Re: [DF] Solving for N

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Originally Posted by Nymdok View Post
Getting through the DR (we assume DR 3 arbitrarily) and dealing only 1 dmg means that we need to have about 1d -3 after dr so 1d - the 3 from the DR suits us fine.

Now the odds that both of that happens together gives us about .8 dmg per turn.

Again, if you have no problem with the higher skills, and no problem with the low Dmg, then you can really build that or anything in between.

Nymdok
I find that parties usually vary greatly in DR. So the high skill/low dmg enemies either don't threaten high DR guy or will kill the low DR guy. You can give them armor divisors and such to mitigate this effect, but how many high skill, low damage, armor avoiding enemies can you really run?
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:57 AM   #32
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Default Re: [DF] Solving for N

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Originally Posted by Gnome View Post
I find that parties usually vary greatly in DR. So the high skill/low dmg enemies either don't threaten high DR guy or will kill the low DR guy. You can give them armor divisors and such to mitigate this effect, but how many high skill, low damage, armor avoiding enemies can you really run?
I assume that they will be one of several different types.

As to the span of DR in the party, if that guy paid for the extra DR, hes being rewarded. The low DR guy will have the challenge of still contributing in another way. Looking at the upper and lower bounds of DR in your party will help you suss out how its likely to go. Also, normally guys with low DR do other things to offset it (i.e. SPells, Missle attacks, High Defense, etc).

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Old 04-19-2013, 11:15 AM   #33
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Default Re: [DF] Solving for N

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Originally Posted by Nymdok View Post
I assume that they will be one of several different types.

As to the span of DR in the party, if that guy paid for the extra DR, hes being rewarded.
Problem is that you generally want a range of damage that can hurt everyone, and if one guy has DR 12 and another guy has DR 3, you're probably going to be throwing around attacks at 3d or 2d(2) or so.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:24 AM   #34
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Default Re: [DF] Solving for N

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
most GURPS games I've played, run, or heard about keep HP under 15 points for protagonists and villains, and use lower scores than DF. Which is to be expected.
Whereas for me and my table, historically, This hasnt been the case. Gorthig specifically will load up on the HP taking the +30% limit as High as he can. HP matters to him. As he purchases it, his reward for it is by often times being last man standing in melee encounters. He values that.

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Old 04-19-2013, 11:35 AM   #35
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Default Re: [DF] Solving for N

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Problem is that you generally want a range of damage that can hurt everyone, and if one guy has DR 12 and another guy has DR 3, you're probably going to be throwing around attacks at 3d or 2d(2) or so.
This is why I generally recommend designing encounters to the party average (or median depending on which sounds better to you).

In the event of 'the DR 12 guy is invulnerable to attacks' then, again, thats what he PAID for. Hes getting the benefit of that DR which seems legit to me. If everyone else has DR3 and falls, then he'll likely be overwhelmed anyway or even attacked in a vulnerable location.

Again, let me restate that those guys who DONT have high DR normally have something else. They have some other way to contribute. If DR is bought with money (i.e. Armor) then they may have spent that money in another way for sweeter weapons or whatever. If DR is bought with CP then they may likely have a higher Defense or other resources.

From the adventure writers standpoint, you dont know whos going to come swaggering in to the Adventure (ESPECIALLY in GURPS). The N metric is as good as any as a simple 'go-by'. If you used N monsters in the last encounter and it was a little to easy, try 1.5 N. Having that original coefficient at least lets you do some comparisons from one encounter to the next. And its easy.

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Old 04-19-2013, 02:43 PM   #36
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Default Re: [DF] Solving for N

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Problem is that you generally want a range of damage that can hurt everyone, and if one guy has DR 12 and another guy has DR 3, you're probably going to be throwing around attacks at 3d or 2d(2) or so.
First, as Nymdok note, that kind of variety is a key aspect of nearly ALL RPG's. Enjoy that variety.

Second, try varying your NPC attacks in quantity and type. If there are 5 guys facing my party, one of whom is in full plate and carrying a big sword while the other 4 are in leathers with daggers, I am not going to attack them all equally! Less combat-effective PC's should attract fewer attacks because they are less of a threat. Tougher PC's should attract MORE attacks because ... well, you need that to bring them down. And grappling, binding, magical, or chemical attacks (to name a few) will ignore the DR entirely.

It should never be an issue of inbalance, it should just be a question of playing against the PC's like you really wold if you were in that situation.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:10 PM   #37
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Default Re: [DF] Solving for N

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First, as Nymdok note, that kind of variety is a key aspect of nearly ALL RPG's. Enjoy that variety.
I have nothing against that variety. I was addressing the swingyness of GURPS combat.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:30 PM   #38
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Default Re: [DF] Solving for N

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Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Second, try varying your NPC attacks in quantity and type. If there are 5 guys facing my party, one of whom is in full plate and carrying a big sword while the other 4 are in leathers with daggers, I am not going to attack them all equally! Less combat-effective PC's should attract fewer attacks because they are less of a threat. Tougher PC's should attract MORE attacks because ... well, you need that to bring them down. And grappling, binding, magical, or chemical attacks (to name a few) will ignore the DR entirely.

It should never be an issue of inbalance, it should just be a question of playing against the PC's like you really wold if you were in that situation.
Having played RPG's for over thirty years and fought many thousands of melees. It is almost always correct to double-up on the weakest opponent, kill it, then triple-up on the next weakest. Concentrating on the strongest lets the weaklings act for free when they should be dieing or at least running for their lives. The strongest is only attacked first if one can land an immediate knock-out. PC parties are easier to beat than NPC parties because they care about the fate of their weakest.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:43 PM   #39
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Default Re: [DF] Solving for N

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Having played RPG's for over thirty years and fought many thousands of melees. It is almost always correct to double-up on the weakest opponent, kill it, then triple-up on the next weakest.
Depends on your rule system and on whether your opponents are comparable in fighting power. Your basic objective is to reduce the other side's offensive power as fast as possible, so in a game system where foes fight at full capability until killed, you pick the target with the highest ratio of offense to defense and you kill it first, and then work your way down. In games where injury reduces offensive ability you may be better off spreading damage around, and games with effective movement control mechanics you may want to assign people to controlling movement or may be unable to focus fire due to enemy action.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:25 PM   #40
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Default Re: [DF] Solving for N

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Having played RPG's for over thirty years and fought many thousands of melees. It is almost always correct to double-up on the weakest opponent, kill it, then triple-up on the next weakest. Concentrating on the strongest lets the weaklings act for free when they should be dieing or at least running for their lives. The strongest is only attacked first if one can land an immediate knock-out. PC parties are easier to beat than NPC parties because they care about the fate of their weakest.
I am not talking about PC tactics, I am talking about NPC tactics, which are usually predicated on a certain level of personal cowardice.
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