DF 15 Servant and Common Sense

[sir_pudding]

Caveat: I know that this is a sensitive topic here having resulted in at least two flame-locked threads. What I am definitely not asking for is house rules here. I am mostly interested in authorial intent (or at least a "Bah! Waves hand dismissively") or some RAW based explanation of how I am wrong.

I noticed the other day, when I was making a hireling, that the Servant template on page 43 (I think) of Dungeon Fantasy 15 Henchmen has Common Sense as an optional advantage. Furthermore the last paragraph of the description of the template suggests that the GM make Common Sense useful but not how. Now as far as I can tell, Common Sense is meaningless for NPCs and results in a brain-splodey paradox if actually attempted. Is it on the template solely for PC servants (as unlikely as that is)?

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Caveat: I know that this is a sensitive topic here having resulted in at least two flame-locked threads. What I am definitely not asking for is house rules here. I am mostly interested in authorial intent (or at least a "Bah! Waves hand dismissively") or some RAW based explanation of how I am wrong.

I noticed the other day, when I was making a hireling, that the Servant template on page 43 (I think) of Dungeon Fantasy 15 Henchmen has Common Sense as an optional advantage. Furthermore the last paragraph of the description of the template suggests that the GM make Common Sense useful but not how. Now as far as I can tell, Common Sense is meaningless for NPCs and results in a brain-splodey paradox if actually attempted. Is it on the template solely for PC servants (as unlikely as that is)?

I'd say it's a matter of RP guidance. If a given NPC has Common Sense, I'm going to RP that trait in a consistent manner.



CP totals don't matter so much for NPCs, except as they may count for Allies/Enemies/Dependents.

[Kromm]

It's there to let the servant advise the master against stupidity. That is, it's really for the PC with the Ally, but filtered through the Ally's voice, so it isn't instant, real-time useful, but a "Hey, boss, do you want to rethink that plan?" kind of thing if the PC takes the time out to fill in the NPC on the plan.

[zoncxs]

to me, if it was meant for an NPC that is with the PCs then I would use that for those times when the PCs make dumb choices.

PC 1 "Lets open this door here that we spotted after killing all the giant spiders in this room!"

Servant NPC: "Uhmm...pardon my lord, but there are some weird writings over next to the door. should we perhaps translate that? just incase?"

PC 1: "BAH!" opens door, triggers trap, dies.

player 1 "What the hell?! you could have warned us some way!"

GM "Pardon my lord, but I did."

evil laugh.

EDIT:: NINJA'D!!

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

EDIT:: NINJA'D!!

But your version was more entertaining. :)

[combatmedic]

That all makes sense, given this is a hireling or henchman template.

[David Johnston2]

The school of thought that holds that Common Sense is meaningless for NPCs is based on the idea that friends are always going to give good advice anyway. Which isn't too much different from the GM always saying "are you sure you want to do that?" and making it useless for PCs as well.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kromm

It's there to let the servant advise the master against stupidity. That is, it's really for the PC with the Ally, but filtered through the Ally's voice, so it isn't instant, real-time useful, but a "Hey, boss, do you want to rethink that plan?" kind of thing if the PC takes the time out to fill in the NPC on the plan.

Can't an NPC do that anyway? If it makes sense otherwise to roleplay him that way?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Can't an NPC do that anyway? If it makes sense otherwise to roleplay him that way?

Sure, but unless he has Common Sense . . . well, why would you roleplay him that way? Which is to say, I agree with this post:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The school of thought that holds that Common Sense is meaningless for NPCs is based on the idea that friends are always going to give good advice anyway. Which isn't too much different from the GM always saying "are you sure you want to do that?" and making it useless for PCs as well.

At least my PCs give advice in line with their form of crazy, plus whatever secret agendas they have (they always have them). In my campaigns, it's worth it for a player to live with their Ally being 10 points less effective in other ways in order to get good advice.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

friends are always going to give good advice anyway

Actually, they'll give what they think is good advice, when and if they think to give it. The distinction is important; in fact, it's the crux of this particular Advantage.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Can't an NPC do that anyway? If it makes sense otherwise to roleplay him that way?

Sure. But the Advantage -- just as with a PC -- removes the "if", and makes sure the NPC is sensible, so that it's proper to roleplay it as such. If you described the NPC otherwise -- perhaps flighty, irresponsible, indifferent, chaotic, hostile -- then that NPC might not offer advice, or you might not want to trust it if they did. Make the NPC an Ally, and give it Common Sense, and you have a reliable source of sensible advice.

There may well be kindly and wise NPCs that also give you sensible advice. But there are also characters with every other sort of ability and Advantage that might want to help you. Buying this particular combination of Advantages isn't less meaningful than any other combination simply because you might luck into the same combination out in the environment "for free".