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Old 02-16-2013, 07:24 PM   #1
flashbang
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Default GURPS Bunnies & Burrows: updating from 3e to 4e rules

I'm in the process of updating GURPS Bunnies and Burrows from 3e to 4e.
It has been more of a challenge than I thought!

I'd like some feedback regarding the Advantage "Eidetic Sense of Smell" in GURPS Bunnies and Burrows. I am wondering if it should be replaced with "Discriminatory Smell" from the 4th Edition Basic rules.

To me, they both seem to be nearly the same, except "Discriminatory Smell" has higher skill bonuses than "Eidetic Sense of Smell," and has a higher point cost at 15 points vs. 10 points. Any thoughts on this point?

Next, with combat skills no longer providing bonuses to Dodge, 4e rabbits tend to have a lower Dodge score than their 3e counterparts. Rabbits still have the Basic Speed of (DX+HT)/2, as per GURPS B&B. Dodge, as per GURPS B&B, is half Basic Speed +1, so the average rabbit has a Dodge of 6.

In the original book, rabbits that are part of the Warren Watch or Hoplites could have Dodge skills as high as 11 or 12, thanks to their combat skill bonuses. This has disappeared in 4e rules.

I should note that rabbits who are part of the Warren Watch or Hoplites can purchase the 4th edition "Enhanced Dodge" advantage from the Basic Rules for 15 points. This would give them a +1 to their Dodge, of course.

When creating characters, I have a rule of limiting increasing Basic Speed by more than 2.0 points. This is to keep with the idea that rabbits in the game are ordinary, and to keep them weak (as they are a prey animal.)
Should I reconsider this and allow higher point expenditure on Basic Speed during character creation, or does someone else have a different idea?

Any thoughts or insights would be welcome. Thanks!

Last edited by flashbang; 02-16-2013 at 07:26 PM. Reason: additional comment
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:25 PM   #2
Gold & Appel Inc
 
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Default Re: GURPS Bunnies & Burrows: updating from 3e to 4e rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by flashbang View Post
I'd like some feedback regarding the Advantage "Eidetic Sense of Smell" in GURPS Bunnies and Burrows. I am wondering if it should be replaced with "Discriminatory Smell" from the 4th Edition Basic rules.

To me, they both seem to be nearly the same, except "Discriminatory Smell" has higher skill bonuses than "Eidetic Sense of Smell," and has a higher point cost at 15 points vs. 10 points. Any thoughts on this point?
Could go either way depending on the exact effect you want... IDHTB, but I'm assuming that both provide the same non-bonus effects from the above text, in which case you're just deciding (effectively) how much Acute Smell to give them, which is worth about 1 point/level if we assume that Taste composes half of the usual 2/level value of that Advantage. lwcamp's Excellent Animal Page gives them the full Discriminatory Smell on top of Per 10, and might help you out with this in other ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flashbang View Post
Next, with combat skills no longer providing bonuses to Dodge, 4e rabbits tend to have a lower Dodge score than their 3e counterparts. [snip]

I should note that rabbits who are part of the Warren Watch or Hoplites can purchase the 4th edition "Enhanced Dodge" advantage from the Basic Rules for 15 points. This would give them a +1 to their Dodge, of course.

When creating characters, I have a rule of limiting increasing Basic Speed by more than 2.0 points. This is to keep with the idea that rabbits in the game are ordinary, and to keep them weak (as they are a prey animal.)
Should I reconsider this and allow higher point expenditure on Basic Speed during character creation, or does someone else have a different idea?
If you want them to have a higher Dodge without all the benefits of higher Speed, just allow more than one level of Enhanced Dodge. A limit of Enhanced Dodge +3, plus Combat Reflexes for warrior types of course, should give them some survivability without changing the "prey animal" aesthetic. If you have 4e Martial Arts, the expanded Retreat rules also introduce some options like Sideslip that might be handy for them.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:01 AM   #3
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Default Re: GURPS Bunnies & Burrows: updating from 3e to 4e rules

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Originally Posted by abe ray View Post
maybe this could be a perk/advantage,better paws
this perk/advantage would allow you to use your forepaws like human hands!
just not sure what the point cost should be though.
You'd just need to buy off No Fine Manipulators and pay back the NFM discounts on your attributes, if there are any. Humanlike hands are the default.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:02 AM   #4
johndallman
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Default Re: GURPS Bunnies & Burrows: updating from 3e to 4e rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by flashbang View Post
Next, with combat skills no longer providing bonuses to Dodge, 4e rabbits tend to have a lower Dodge score than their 3e counterparts. Rabbits still have the Basic Speed of (DX+HT)/2, as per GURPS B&B. Dodge, as per GURPS B&B, is half Basic Speed +1, so the average rabbit has a Dodge of 6.
I'm not familiar with G:B&B, but there seems to be a way of doing this that's more 4e-ish. Use the standard 4e calculation for Basic Speed, giving a range of around 5-7, and for dodge, giving 8-10. Then give rabbits Enhanced Move, allowing move scores at about the level that they had Basic Speed in 3e B&B. Does that work?
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:13 AM   #5
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Default Re: GURPS Bunnies & Burrows: updating from 3e to 4e rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
I'm not familiar with G:B&B, but there seems to be a way of doing this that's more 4e-ish. Use the standard 4e calculation for Basic Speed, giving a range of around 5-7, and for dodge, giving 8-10. Then give rabbits Enhanced Move, allowing move scores at about the level that they had Basic Speed in 3e B&B. Does that work?
Not really... Enhanced Move doesn't affect Dodge.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:23 AM   #6
johndallman
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Default Re: GURPS Bunnies & Burrows: updating from 3e to 4e rules

I know. That was purely to give them similar Move.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:30 AM   #7
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Default Re: GURPS Bunnies & Burrows: updating from 3e to 4e rules

Eidetic Smell seems to be the B&B version of Eidetic Memory but smell only.
I'd cross the new Eidetic Memory with the old Eidetic Smell and make it at most 3cp. Perhaps even a Perk. Edit: just reread Discriminatory smell - I'd always thought of it as Directional. Doh!

Dodge: the baseline Bunnies will have Dodge 8. You can increase this with higher Basic Speed or DX. I think Biotech gives BS a bonus and BM a penalty based on SM. My vote is give them BS7* BM3 Enhanced Move 2.25 (needs mods for manoeuvring). *Dodge 10!
The cost shouldn't matter to the players - it'll be the campaign baseline - unless you're doing a multispecies PC B&B and need them all costed out to balance.
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Last edited by jacobmuller; 02-24-2013 at 04:12 AM.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:24 AM   #8
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Default Re: GURPS Bunnies & Burrows: updating from 3e to 4e rules

Do you know about the Gulliver rules extension? (scaling characters/weapons etc. small-big)
It depends on your ideas and how you want things to be done, but it could be quite useful because Bunnies are small... ;)

http://www.gamesdiner.com/gulliver

Anyway, nice conversion project! I hope you assemble your results in a pdf file or something like that :)
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: GURPS Bunnies & Burrows: updating from 3e to 4e rules

If you havn't checked the Pyramid article "When We Were Very Small" yet you should.

http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-2634

from page 2 of that issue:
Quote:
Watch your step! When We Were Very Small provides a little
tweak to the core rules that permit better gradation and varia-
tion on the smaller side of the GURPS scale. It includes advice
for playing animals and others of undersized stature, plus size
and strength guidelines for over 100 tiny troublemakers.
Edit: I noticed after it that you seemed to be looking more for direct feedback on those specific issues. Sorry. Still, this might help :P
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:24 AM   #10
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Default Re: GURPS Bunnies & Burrows: updating from 3e to 4e rules

Basic speed is 20 points per level. I doubt allowing that in low-ish point games would mess things up. If it makes you uncomfortable, simply charge an unusual background, or special exercises perk.
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