Steve Jackson Games Forums Building Zentraedi Power Armor
 Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 02-14-2013, 12:29 AM #1 ssveter     Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Fort Worth, TX Building Zentraedi Power Armor Ok I'm running a GURPS Supers game. So I am trying to use the Powers and Supers rules. One of the bad guys is a micronized Meltlandi however sometimes she will be full sized. What I am wrestlinng with is how to build her Queadluun-Rau power armor. Her power armor has a fixed ST and many other powers that would function under powers and supers rules as gadgets. I just need help statting this out.
02-14-2013, 01:35 AM   #2
Sunrunners_Fire

Join Date: Mar 2010
Re: Building Zentraedi Power Armor

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ssveter What I am wrestlinng with is how to build her Queadluun-Rau power armor. Her power armor has a fixed ST and many other powers that would function under powers and supers rules as gadgets. I just need help statting this out.
In real-terms, not game terms, what can her power armor do?
__________________
"Art thou wroth? Wherefore art thou wroth, brother?"

 02-14-2013, 09:54 AM #4 Dustin     Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The former Chochenyo territory Re: Building Zentraedi Power Armor Taking a nibble at this: Height : 16.8 m = 55 ft = SM+6 If your game uses metric widely, you might want to declare 1 GURPS yard = 1 meter to avoid having to do conversions in play. I usually do for scifi games. Maximum atmospheric speed: 1160 kph = 352 yards/sec or 322 meters/sec as Air Move. So, Flight (Newtonian Space Flight +25%), and enough Enhanced Move (Air) to reach Move 352 or 322, as desired. The exceptional maneuverability of the Queadluun-Rau with its vector control system probably qualifies for the full +25% Handling Bonus enhancement (B52) providing +5 to control rolls at high speed. Maximum running speed: 176 kph = 53 yards/sec or 49 meters/sec as Enhanced Move (Ground). Delta-v capacity: 4.7 kps = 5140 yards/sec or 4700 meters/sec, bought as Enhanced Move (Space) (Handling Bonus +25%, Newtonian -50%). For radar and other sensors, if you have GURPS Powers, I would start with p.150 and tweak those to suit. __________________ My gaming blog: Thor's Grumblings Keep your friends close, and your enemies in Close Combat.
 02-14-2013, 10:45 AM #5 Rasputin     Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Re: Building Zentraedi Power Armor Isn't there a conversion of a Valkyrie somewhere around here? Since the Spacy made the Valkyrie to fight the Zentraedi, Zentraedi power armor should be have stats comparable to a Valkyrie. __________________ Cura isto securi, Eugene. My GURPS blog.
02-14-2013, 12:15 PM   #6
Phoenix_Dragon

Join Date: Apr 2005
Re: Building Zentraedi Power Armor

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ssveter Cannons: 2 Moldile Mistraekor-49 (also known under the Terran designation of RGT-F) 79.2mm triplebarreled rotary liquid-fueled, self-propelled low velocity cannons in the port and starboard torso. The cannons fired rocket-assisted semi-active laser guided HESH-shells with a maximum speed of 480 m/s at 180 rpm to a maximum effective range of up to 1.9 km in an Earth-like environment. The ammunition bin for each weapon could contain 60 rounds.
Rough-guessing it from the Ultra-Tech stats for a 64mm charge and bumping up the explosive power slightly for the larger round, that would put these at doing about 6dx3 cr ex. Guessing from the 64mm mortar box (A similar-caliber, similarly low-velocity gun), I'd put the kinetic damage at around 6dx2 (0.5) pi++. Accuracy and range would be somewhat similar too, I suspect. If both the kinetic and explosive damage fail to penetrate armor, the HESH round then inflicts 108 cutting damage with AD(100), except against laminate armor.

Quote:
 6 x Makharsz Vawnous-12 (also known under the Terran designation of DP-1) particle beam/pulse cannons, in two clusters of three cannons, one in each arm. In pulse mode, each cannon fired particles discs ('annihilation discs') at 4000 m/s to a maximum effective range of 8 km. In beam mode, each cannon fired a particle beam. Typically, the cannons fired in series when in beam mode and in parallel when in pulse mode. In both modes the yield of each cannon was 3.5 MJ per second.
Judging by Spaceshipes, a 3.5 MJ particle beam would hit for about 6dx5 (5) burn rad sur damage.

Quote:
 Missiles:  2 x Diwhaug Ratsatoul-8 missile launchers in the hips.  2 x Diwhaug Ratsatoul-9 missile launchers in the shoulders.
Need info on warhead size and type. "Dogfight missiles" make me think anular-blast fragmentation, like modern air-to-air missiles; a Sidewinder, for example, bursting to attack with 194 fragments dealing 6d+1 pi each. If instead we assume that they're more like anti-tank missiles, with a HEAT warhead, it might do something more like 6dx12 (10) cr ex on contact with a linked 8dx5 cr ex blast.

Quote:
 VIII. Armor: The armor of the Queadluun-Rau was composed of an advanced titanium-steel alloy. The armor stopped all small arms and heavy infantry weapons fire, provided reasonable resistance to light mecha-mounted weaponry, such as the Zentraedi 22.3mm HE autocannon round, and poor resistance to medium mechamounted weaponry, such as the Valkyrie's 55mm APFSDS round.
The closest weapon I could find to a 22.3mm autocannon would be the 25mm M242 Bushmaster, firing a SAPHE (More capable against armor than HE) round which deals 6dx4 pi++ with a 3d+2[1d+1] cr ex follow-up. With that, I'd guess their armor at somewhere around DR 100. The 55mm APFSDS autocannon I'm having a much harder time finding a comparison for. I'd rough-guess it at around 6dx10 to 6dx15 (2) pi++ inc. That'd easily go through DR 100, but the Bushmaster would have a very hard time going through anything more than that, so it seems reasonable. You could possibly make a case for more armor, basing it more off the 55mm APFSDS and ignoring the smaller autocannon.

If the armor is laminate, even DR 100 is enough to make it safe against its own 79.2mm cannons. Every other weapon it has would go straight through its armor. If it's not laminate armor, even the 79.2mm cannons would mulch it.

Quote:
 In short this thing is bad ass
Going by these stats, it's a glass cannon. It's very fast and carries a lot of weapons, but its a large target (A walking five-story building), with weapons that can't scratch a modern MBT from the front (Some of which can't do it from the side) and armor that can be penetrated by any anti-tank weapon.

Part of the issue is that most mecha-genre stories tweak reality in favor of the mecha, which is pretty much a necessity for them to work. Fortunately, Supers is a good genre for such tweaks, too! While these would probably be the most realistic numbers, given the description here, what probably matters more in those genres is how they stack up against the expected opponents. If you're not expecting to fight tanks, then how it performs against them isn't terribly important (Although with its mobility, it'd probably do well against tanks in a constrained environment, like a heavily built-up urban area). Instead, it'd be best to evaluate the expected threats and then tweak the numbers to handle them as you would want a giant mecha to do.

 02-14-2013, 01:33 PM #7 Mark Skarr Forum Pervert(If you have to ask . . .)     Join Date: Feb 2005 Re: Building Zentraedi Power Armor Pretty much what Phoenix Dragon says: It's a giant, glass target. Sure, against mid-level supers it'll be able to hold its own (assuming it can hit the gnats), but, when real firepower is brought out, its fragility will be obvious. And, it will be the primary target for any heavy weapon. It's still better than the guy who wanted to bring a SM+6 transforming helicopter into my I.S.T. game with only DR 20.
02-14-2013, 03:29 PM   #8
Fred Brackin

Join Date: Aug 2007
Re: Building Zentraedi Power Armor

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mark Skarr Pretty much what Phoenix Dragon says: It's a giant, glass target. Sure, against mid-level supers it'll be able to hold its own (assuming it can hit the gnats), but, when real firepower is brought out, its fragility will be obvious. .
Maybe if it ever got hit but trying to hit one of these things with a gun mounted in a conventional MBT turret would be an extraordinary exercise in futility.

This is a _flying_ suit of armor with ridiculous maneuverability. I'd estimate it as at least 3 Gs instanly vectorable in 3 dimensions.

It'd just fly over a field of tanks and rain massive volleys of armor-piercing missiles on them. The tank guns wouldn't even elevate high enough much less traverse fast enough to hit one. Just forget about tanks, they don't even fight on to the right battlefield.

When they do get hit by things like air-to-air missiles they are relatively fragile. We're still talking HEAT rather than fragmentation warheads though. DR100 is probably about right.

I wouldn't try and write one of these up as gear. It'd have to be an Ally (with Compartmentalized Mind/controls) or maybe even a Patron because it'd be so expensive.

Very high Dex, lots of Enhanced Dodge. This unit does not lumber along like a tank with legs. It flies at blinding speed and with greater agility than even its' elite pilots possess outside of the mecha.
__________________
Fred Brackin

02-14-2013, 05:18 PM   #9
RyanW

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Re: Building Zentraedi Power Armor

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon Part of the issue is that most mecha-genre stories tweak reality in favor of the mecha, which is pretty much a necessity for them to work. Fortunately, Supers is a good genre for such tweaks, too! While these would probably be the most realistic numbers, given the description here, what probably matters more in those genres is how they stack up against the expected opponents. If you're not expecting to fight tanks, then how it performs against them isn't terribly important (Although with its mobility, it'd probably do well against tanks in a constrained environment, like a heavily built-up urban area). Instead, it'd be best to evaluate the expected threats and then tweak the numbers to handle them as you would want a giant mecha to do.
It all comes down to one thing: Audiences prefer watching giant robots beat each other up over watching a weapons officer wait for a missile lock and push a button.

Realistically, this thing has the problem that it doesn't really have an obvious role. It's inferior to tanks on open ground, to infantry in built up areas, and to real aircraft* in the air (assuming technological parity**). It's only benefit is that it isn't absolutely horrible at any of them.

*No matter what phlebotinum you add, it's hard to get around the fact that this thing is about as far away from the Sears-Haack body as you can get.

**And you may suggest it was built for asymmetrical warfare, so we can't assume equal technology. But military equipment in a realistic setting does not just compete against the enemy's equipment, but against friendly equipment fighting for a slice of the military budget.
__________________
RyanW
For sale: Turing test cheat sheets
Check out my GURPS (et al) wiki, Sweetcandle. Latest addition: Avatar style bending in Fate Core

02-14-2013, 05:43 PM   #10
Phoenix_Dragon

Join Date: Apr 2005
Re: Building Zentraedi Power Armor

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Fred Brackin Maybe if it ever got hit but trying to hit one of these things with a gun mounted in a conventional MBT turret would be an extraordinary exercise in futility.
Not really, particularly when it's on the ground. A modern MBT is used to hitting a moving target 3/4 the length and 1/8 the height, moving at 1/2-2/3 the speed across rough terrain, at 4+ kilometers. They fire projectiles that travel at almost 2 kilometers per second. At 1km, if the mecha start to change velocity the moment the tank fires, even 3 Gees of acceleration will not be enough to displace it enough to avoid the shot (And that assumes that they even know the shot is coming). Also note that the cannons these mecha have are low-velocity. If a MBT is having trouble hitting with its cannon, that low-velocity gun is going to be useless against similar enemies.

Elevation isn't too much of an issue. At the tank's effective range of 4km, the suits would have to be more than a kilometer up for the gun to be unable to elevate enough. Then they get to deal with air power and AA weapons. ABF warheads would be rather weak against them, but any full-sized AAM that explodes on the target would take them out (Even the early Sidewinder), as would any kinetic-kill missile. If they're on the ground or moving slowly, ATGMs would be more than sufficient to obliterate them. Not to mention, modern combat aircraft fire at much longer ranges than those mecha ever do.

Tanks only are poor against them if you insist on using them in dumb ways, like moving them into urban areas and dramatically cutting down their line of sight. Use them in the open with a km+ LoS, with appropriate air cover, and those mecha are going to have a much harder time of it. They need their mobility in order to win against modern tanks, so the proper response it to deny them that mobility, not to throw your tanks into a situation where you essentially hand the advantage over to your enemy.

If they get in close around or above the tanks, they've got a strong advantage, but they have to get there. Someone with a pistol has an advantage over someone with a bolt-action rifle at very close ranges, but that doesn't mean pistol-armed soldiers are superior.

I'm certainly not disparaging mobility, it's a great advantage, but the inability to take a hit or to even hurt the MBTs at range is a big disadvantage to make up. Considering the numbers involved (From my vague recollections of the source), the mecha are going to win eventually. It's not because they've got the better war machines, but because they've got the numbers to take a decent amount of initial losses in the process of overwhelming the more traditional forces, at which point they mop up.

Assuming they don't just nuke the site from orbit.

Mecha-genre stories tend to handle this by skewing strength based on more narrative demands and rule-of-cool. A battle between mecha and tanks isn't handled like a realistic conflict, it's handled like an action hero versus mooks. If the mecha shoots a tank, it blows up. Usually, if a tank shoots a mecha, the mecha might stagger (If it's small), or just stand there and take it, to no effect (If it's big). If the mecha are essentially of mook-level importance (Vast hordes of mecha that the good-guys have to get through) you might see one or two taken out by conventional means before the rest of the mecha take them out, but it's exceptionally rare to see anything close to a matched fight. Tanks never use their superior range, instead ending up in close-quarters fights where their strengths do not matter and the mecha's strengths dominate, and the crew often do something silly like gape in awe when the enemy shows up in front of them, rather than pulling the trigger. It's even to the point where a mecha can use a weapon that a tank uses (Sometimes even tearing it off of a tank to use itself), and that weapon is suddenly more effective because it's held by the mecha, instead. Sometimes, they can use inferior weapons and still do better. Fortunately, that all works fine for a cinematic Supers or action game!

(They also tend to not carry over the same technology to conventional vehicles. Imagine tanks and aircraft made with that sort of tech...)

Very few stories of any genre do a good job of showing the capabilities of modern MBTs. I find it kind of amusing to compare modern MBT performance to mecha performance in various media. Like battletech, where a M1A1 would be armed with a weapon that deals damage comparable to an AC10 (Or possibly AC20, as it can nearly fire twice per turn), with an effective range of ~133 hexes, and enough of a to-hit bonus to reliably hit a stationary mech at that range, even while the tank is moving at full speed (A move of 7, or 9 if the governor is removed).

 Tags gurps 4e, mecha, powers, supers

 Thread Tools Display Modes Linear Mode

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Fnords are Off [IMG] code is Off HTML code is Off Forum Rules
 Forum Jump User Control Panel Private Messages Subscriptions Who's Online Search Forums Forums Home Illuminati Headquarters     SJ Games Discussion     Daily Illuminator     Forum Feedback and Help     MIB Demo Events Warehouse 23     Warehouse 23 General Discussion     Warehouse 23 Digital     Pyramid Munchkin     Munchkin 101     Munchkin     Munchkin Collectible Card Game     Munchkin Quest     Other Munchkin Games Roleplaying     Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game         DFRPG Resources     GURPS         GURPS Resources     Transhuman Space     Traveller     In Nomine     Roleplaying in General     Play By Post Board and Card Games     Car Wars     Illuminati Playtest     Ogre and G.E.V.         Ogre Video Game         Ogre Scenarios     Board and Dice Games     Card Games     Miniatures The Network     GURPS Character Assistant     GURPS Vehicle Builder     GURPS Character Builder The Gnomes of Zurich     The Industry     Conventions     Trading Post     Gamer Finder

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:41 AM.