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Old 02-01-2013, 01:24 PM   #1
Keiko
 
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Default Why doesn't Brawling have a Default?

It seems like a pretty straight forward skill that anyone would have some chance of performing.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why doesn't Brawling have a Default?

Anybody can punch or bite at DX for thrust-1 crushing, kick at DX-2 for thrust crushing, or wield brass knuckles, a blackjack, or a stun gun at full DX; see p. B271. Likewise, anyone can parry barehanded at (DX/2)+3; see pp. B376-377. These things don't require any special skill.

Brawling is specifically the ability to do that well, allowing you to replace "DX" with "Brawling" in those formulas, if higher, and possibly gain a small damage bonus if you know it at DX+2 or better. It also encompasses a few dirty-fighting tricks that require actual training; many techniques that default to Brawling at some penalty don't default to DX.

In effect, everyone has default Brawling equal to DX, but it isn't written that way in an effort to differentiate training that gives access to techniques from untrained unarmed ability that doesn't allow those moves.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why doesn't Brawling have a Default?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
In effect, everyone has default Brawling equal to DX, but it isn't written that way in an effort to differentiate training that gives access to techniques from untrained unarmed ability that doesn't allow those moves.
I know what you mean Kromm, but I'm afraid your wording is misleading. I remember you listing several relevant benefits of having Brawling at DX compared to just using your DX with no Brawling. IIRC they were more relevant in an actual tavern brawl than in a formal duel on an infinite flat hexagon. E.g. a parry with each hand does not seem to be covered by techniques - it's just the way Brawling Parries.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why doesn't Brawling have a Default?

This 2006 thread has some more details.
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=20754
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Why doesn't Brawling have a Default?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post

I know what you mean Kromm, but I'm afraid your wording is misleading.
For the most part, and especially the way most people play the game, that's close enough. The details of parries, unusual combat moves, etc. are mostly relevant to gamers who've switched on large parts of GURPS Martial Arts. In a typical just-the-Basic Set campaign, it's safe enough to treat Brawling as "improvable DX for barehanded combat."
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why doesn't Brawling have a Default?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
an infinite flat hexagon
*tries to rationalize this*

*head asplodes*
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Why doesn't Brawling have a Default?

Just to present a dissenting view point (and probably get shot down in minutes) I'm actually in favor of making Brawling default to DX-4, like any other Easy skill. Wrestling would default to DX-5, while the more "advanced" unarmed skills have no default. This makes untrained hand-to-hand skills parallel untrained melee weapon skills; it actually becomes beneficial for average Joe to pick up that stick to defend himself with. Yes, they'll have to use All-Out and/or Telegraphic attacks to have a chance of hitting, but that's already strongly suggested by Martial Arts (Untrained Fighters, p113). This just changes it from a compulsion to a tactical necessity.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: Why doesn't Brawling have a Default?

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Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
Just to present a dissenting view point (and probably get shot down in minutes) I'm actually in favor of making Brawling default to DX-4, like any other Easy skill. Wrestling would default to DX-5, while the more "advanced" unarmed skills have no default. This makes untrained hand-to-hand skills parallel untrained melee weapon skills; it actually becomes beneficial for average Joe to pick up that stick to defend himself with. Yes, they'll have to use All-Out and/or Telegraphic attacks to have a chance of hitting, but that's already strongly suggested by Martial Arts (Untrained Fighters, p113). This just changes it from a compulsion to a tactical necessity.
Feel ya, bro. I wonder if all mêlée defaults should be halved across the board - both the DX-5ish ones and the between-skill ones. Bastardswordsmen are particularly hurt by them, as is anybody picking up a bottle or 2×4, as you mentioned.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Why doesn't Brawling have a Default?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
Just to present a dissenting view point (and probably get shot down in minutes) I'm actually in favor of making Brawling default to DX-4, like any other Easy skill. Wrestling would default to DX-5, while the more "advanced" unarmed skills have no default. This makes untrained hand-to-hand skills parallel untrained melee weapon skills; it actually becomes beneficial for average Joe to pick up that stick to defend himself with. Yes, they'll have to use All-Out and/or Telegraphic attacks to have a chance of hitting, but that's already strongly suggested by Martial Arts (Untrained Fighters, p113). This just changes it from a compulsion to a tactical necessity.
Are you then going to say that the guy with no unarmed skills fights at DX-4/DX-5? Rather than at DX as currently?

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Old 02-01-2013, 03:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: Why doesn't Brawling have a Default?

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Are you then going to say that the guy with no unarmed skills fights at DX-4/DX-5? Rather than at DX as currently?

Bill Stoddard
Yes, exactly. Most attacks he makes will be All-Out (as already laid out in Martial Arts) and may be Telegraphic as well. Many people with slight self-defense training or a penchant for getting into fights will have the Dabbler perk for a higher Default. Someone with just 1 point in Karate will be at DX-2, meaning he'll still need to make a lot of Telegraphic attacks - just like someone with 1 point in Flail. There will be a meaningful difference between Brawling DX [1] and Karate DX-2 [1].
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