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Old 12-11-2012, 08:19 PM   #1
PenitentDemon
 
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Default Cannot allow a shady used car saleman to live when it is your choice

Does the MAlakite oath against allowing an evil to live when it is your choice only mean DEMONS or does it mean any humans or ethereals who seem to be evil?

E.g. if a malakite finds the Sociopathic Child genius, in Liber Servitorium, do they have to kill him, or can they try to reform him?
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: Cannot allow a shady used car saleman to live when it is your choice

They don't even have to kill demons, if they can reform them, or thoroughly and permanently thwart their schemes -- they just have to stop the evil.

Killing humans is generally a no-no, and usually undertaken only when the threat to other humans is severe.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Cannot allow a shady used car saleman to live when it is your choice

Sensible Archangels tell their Malakim something like, "I order you to avoid killing humans, even evil ones, unless there is no other reasonable option."

This means that if they leave an evil human alone, it's not their choice, and so they do not get dissonance -- but there's enough wiggle-room for heat-of-battle and the like.

Evil ethereals are just as much target practice as demons.

Of course, "evil" can be a slippery concept, even for the Malakite resonance. And there's the tack Novalis prefers her Virtues take, which tends to be very much in the "hate the sin, redeem the sinner" line. Destiny's Malakim are similarly prone to "Best way to kill evil demons is to get them to be good angels" thinking.

And then there's Kathriel... http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.html?id=894 (Not canon, but, whuzza term, deuterocanonical?)
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Cannot allow a shady used car saleman to live when it is your choice

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Originally Posted by Archangel Beth View Post
Sensible Archangels tell their Malakim something like, "I order you to avoid killing humans, even evil ones, unless there is no other reasonable option."
And what do David, Eli and Jordi tell them? :-)
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:51 PM   #5
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Default Re: Cannot allow a shady used car saleman to live when it is your choice

David's already have the usual Stone "don't hit first" dissonance, and I suspect David figures that's fine.

Eli probably told his, "be cool" -- but may well have emphasized the "try other options first, if you can" part. He and Novalis get along, plus he's a Mercurian, so the whole "smite the sin, help the sinner" concept is probably in there. "Evil is a concept, not a person," would be one way of putting it?

Jordi thinks all humans need to be reined in, but God said that it's not acceptable to winnow them back to the Stone Age, and God is Alpha, so... Look, don't make disturbance if you don't have to, and eating humans makes lots of disturbance -- and causes humans to go killing animals, so think really hard about what you're going to do before you tear a human's throat out.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: Cannot allow a shady used car saleman to live when it is your choice

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Originally Posted by Archangel Beth View Post
Look, don't make disturbance if you don't have to, and eating humans makes lots of disturbance -- and causes humans to go killing animals, so think really hard about what you're going to do before you tear a human's throat out.
I thought that a Jordite in the Vessel of a Bengal Tiger killing (by ripping their throat out) and eating a Human would generate no disturbance. OTOH a Gerbil doing the same thing, would generate disturbance, right?)
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Cannot allow a shady used car saleman to live when it is your choice

Well, true. Though if you turn into a Bengal Tiger in downtown Podunk, Iowa, there's probably going to be disturbance... >_> (The Turning-Into-A-Tiger part if nothing else.) On the plus side, Podunk Iowa is probably far enough away from anything else that you might get away with it.

The real concern Jordi has is probably "will this get the humans riled up such that they start shooting all the animals who might possibly have done it?" That would not help the Word of Animals, after all, and is arguably a greater evil than letting one noxious human get away.

If you can silently rip out a human's throat, kill evil, and enhance or at least not harm the Word of Animals? ...like Jordi's going to complain?
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: Cannot allow a shady used car saleman to live when it is your choice

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Originally Posted by Archangel Beth View Post
Well, true. Though if you turn into a Bengal Tiger in downtown Podunk, Iowa, there's probably going to be disturbance... >_> (The Turning-Into-A-Tiger part if nothing else.) On the plus side, Podunk Iowa is probably far enough away from anything else that you might get away with it.

The real concern Jordi has is probably "will this get the humans riled up such that they start shooting all the animals who might possibly have done it?" That would not help the Word of Animals, after all, and is arguably a greater evil than letting one noxious human get away.

If you can silently rip out a human's throat, kill evil, and enhance or at least not harm the Word of Animals? ...like Jordi's going to complain?
So the Cherub of Animals who goes after the one person preventing a Wilderness Park from being established just has to get a Soldier to put the body in an incinerator... (Since I'm assuming the Cherub of Animals doesn't have a role that would have that be something the Symphony would expect to do)
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Cannot allow a shady used car saleman to live when it is your choice

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So the Cherub of Animals who goes after the one person preventing a Wilderness Park from being established just has to get a Soldier to put the body in an incinerator... (Since I'm assuming the Cherub of Animals doesn't have a role that would have that be something the Symphony would expect to do)
Or devour the body completely enough that no recognizable bits are left, depending on what kind of Vessel specifically we're talking about here.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: Cannot allow a shady used car saleman to live when it is your choice

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Or devour the body completely enough that no recognizable bits are left, depending on what kind of Vessel specifically we're talking about here.
I'd suggest Devour, rather than devour, but I doubt Jordi would react well to one of his/her servitors having a friendship with a celestial with Devour...
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