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Old 08-22-2016, 09:02 PM   #1
Kalzazz
 
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Default [RPM] Quick and Dirty Quirks Quirk

One thing puzzles me about the Quick and Dirty Charm rules for RPM

As your effective skill increases, your ability to quirk your spells drastically decreases, even when throwing spells that will likely cause horrible catastrophe

For instance, say Jaina the Mageling has effective skill 30 for a spell

(Shes a skilled mageling, she is in a place of power, has a grimoire and a workspace, whatever)

She wants this to be an awesome 1000 energy spell! Her safe threshhold is 165, so thats over 5 times her safe threshhold! She rolls 3d+5 to try and avoid horrible horrible doom (she needs a 10 or less or she is suffering a botch)

Jaina however to avoid quirks just needs to get a 16 though (30 -5, so roll vs 25, 17 and 18 automatically fail skill rolls)

If Jaina was not using Quick and Dirty, and rolling each gathering roll stand alone, for most of her rolls she would botch on an 18, pick up a quirk on 17 . . . so she should be much likelier to get quirks than she would be to botch

What am I missing?
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: [RPM] Quick and Dirty Quirks Quirk

That seems right.
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: [RPM] Quick and Dirty Quirks Quirk

Q&D is presumed to be being done in a 'stress free environment', so Jaina the Mageling isn't under the same kinda battle stress she'd be out in the wilds whipping this badboy up.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:35 AM   #4
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Default Re: [RPM] Quick and Dirty Quirks Quirk

It still seems a tad bizarre she has a nearly 50/50 chance of unleashing a 2000 energy minipocalypse but if she succeeds at avoiding that fate its almost surely not going to be quirked

It seems odd in less extreme cases to. Usually when I see people doing Q&D charms, they tend to have 18+ effective skill (they tend to have good skill to begin with, and like to buy at least a +1 workspace and grimoires for their favorite spells (aka the ones they make charms for)), and they usually try to stay within a few times safe thresh hold (because they really dislike having horrible botches)

So the 'did my charm quirk?' roll usually devolves to 'roll 16 or less'

(And notably, with a bit of hitting Ye Olde Grimoire Mart at chargen time, MH1 sages and witches can easily hit these effective skill levels)
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:03 AM   #5
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Default Re: [RPM] Quick and Dirty Quirks Quirk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
It still seems a tad bizarre she has a nearly 50/50 chance of unleashing a 2000 energy minipocalypse but if she succeeds at avoiding that fate its almost surely not going to be quirked
Okay, I see your point... yeah that is a bit odd.


In my games your scenario never came up. The PC made 'reasonable' charms (as in roughly the same costs they could get up to readily in the field).
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: [RPM] Quick and Dirty Quirks Quirk

Even in that case you find things odd

A skill 20 caster can pretty well expect to hit 90 energy in the field through gathering, getting bad results on 17 quirk and 18 botch in the process

To make a 90 energy charm, its more than there safe thresh hold, but not more than twice, so they need to roll a 13 to not botch

To not quirk they need to roll a 16

In the field they are more likely to quirk than botch (17 is easier to roll than 18)

In their charm lab in unconstrained time the opposite is true

That example help clarify more?
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: [RPM] Quick and Dirty Quirks Quirk

Quick and Dirty in this context doesn't refer to any in-game process. It refers to the out-of-game process, and the fact that it won't give the exact same results as rolling it out slowly.

Your asking about why a quick and dirty method is dirty -- why it doesn't give the same results as the not quick and dirty method.
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: [RPM] Quick and Dirty Quirks Quirk

I'm not saying its necessarily wrong, just seemed an odd quirk. I was giving a different example building on evileeyore's comment concerning reasonable field casting

It is easy to explain IC, obviously if your not rushed you can produce a much nicer more polished spell with less quirks. Consider the quality if wartime Mosin-Nagants vs others for instance on fit and finish
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: [RPM] Quick and Dirty Quirks Quirk

Ghostdancer was kind enough to accept my solution idea for this 'problem' as a guest blog post

http://www.ravensnpennies.com/2017/1...1#.Weaaw2hSyM8
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Old 10-18-2017, 03:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: [RPM] Quick and Dirty Quirks Quirk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
One thing puzzles me about the Quick and Dirty Charm rules for RPM

As your effective skill increases, your ability to quirk your spells drastically decreases, even when throwing spells that will likely cause horrible catastrophe
Right. Because the Q&D rules are our best attempt at representing the normal spellcasting rules, and what you describe is exactly what happens as your effective skill increases: your odds of throwing a critical failure remain about the same, but your odds of throwing a normal failure decrease drastically.

So this is 100% an intended feature, not a bug.

The odds don't line up perfectly, mind you, but that's inevitable when you reduce a system this complex into two simple rolls. I originally contemplated two completely different sets of modifiers for the two Q&D rolls, but playtesters vetoed that as unnecessarily complicated, especially considering that it only made things a bit more accurate, not significantly so.
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