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Old 12-01-2012, 08:58 PM   #11
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Ethics and setting oddities

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Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
Nope. It's the Seraph Resonance that gives truth.
I kind of knew that, but thought there were songs that at least kind of mimicked resonances.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:08 PM   #12
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Default Re: Ethics and setting oddities

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To add to the scariness -- an Elohite assistant could predict which techniques will get the victim to give an answer at all (whether true or false is for the Most Holy to decide) and which ones would be fruitless.
There's also the matter of "what counts as an answer?" Does it have to be verbal, or does reading someone's body language count? (Admittedly, the notion of "body language" strikes me as something with which most angels would be unfamiliar.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ethics and setting oddities

Saying, "yes" while shaking your head no? Saying it sarcastically? Sign language?

Crossing one's fingers behind one's back?

Deceptive but technically true statements?

(The word, "is" is present tense...)
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:31 PM   #14
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Default Re: Ethics and setting oddities

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Saying, "yes" while shaking your head no? Saying it sarcastically? Sign language?

Crossing one's fingers behind one's back?

Deceptive but technically true statements?

(The word, "is" is present tense...)
The resonance determines if you think you're lying. On better rolls, it can also tell them what you think the truth is, whether you actually know the truth, why you're lying, and on a really good roll what the truth is regardless of whether you know it, although there are limitations on that last one.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: Ethics and setting oddities

Lying with all its vagueness, or just deception?
Big difference.

"Do you have any sexual perversions?"
"No, I do not."
(Because I don't consider "loving" park benches perverse. They just don't understand our love.)
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:12 AM   #16
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Default Re: Ethics and setting oddities

Remember the resonance check digit tables... AND remember any penalties to check digit (or target number) that might occur with non-verbal communication. (I recall there's something useful about Seraphim in the APG, for this sort of thing?)

The thing about check digits is, of course, that sometimes all you get is "the person is saying X to get your buddy to stop hitting him."
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:27 AM   #17
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At least with a Seraphic investigator, when you tell them "I don't know the answers you're looking for!" they'll stop hitting you. (Assuming that was the truth, anyway).
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ethics and setting oddities

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There's no song of truth? I'm not very well versed on In Nomine. Sorry.
Liber Canticorum, pp. 59-60. Corporeal penetrates disguises, Ethereal lets you know if someone thinks he's lying, and Celestial imposes a Seraph-like restriction on the target, though it can be resisted.

There are certainly ways that torture can be used to create a certain mindset in a victim, where you give him a lesson in what happens when you discover him failing to tell you the truth, for example. It's very unlikely to be effective in a quick-and-dirty "tell me the secret codes before the bomb goes off" situation, which is generally what RPGs are going to cover.

Note that there's a definite difference in the limited effectiveness of damaging a celestial's "meat suit" and the potential effectiveness of inflicting such catastrophic damage on a normal human that it would take a miracle to survive... and providing that miracle, even when death would be a mercy.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:38 PM   #19
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Note that there's a definite difference in the limited effectiveness of damaging a celestial's "meat suit" and the potential effectiveness of inflicting such catastrophic damage on a normal human that it would take a miracle to survive... and providing that miracle, even when death would be a mercy.
Oh, yes. Some NPC Demons of Gluttony did this with a human prisoner in my campaign, continually carving off strips for a "snack" and then healing the damage. As you can guess, she was close to insane by the time of rescue. This was not helped by the fact that she was hanging by an infernal meat hook that would keep her alive so long as the hook was not removed ... but would not stop the pain of its presence.

(Two harrowing missions into the Marches, a fortunate invocation of Eli and some post-recovery care by our angels have gotten her to the point where she is functionally adult again but partially amnesiac and quite confused ... which is still a vast improvement over where she was.)
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:33 PM   #20
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(Two harrowing missions into the Marches, a fortunate invocation of Eli and some post-recovery care by our angels have gotten her to the point where she is functionally adult again but partially amnesiac and quite confused ... which is still a vast improvement over where she was.)
Not to mention the mission to get her out in the first place, which came within inches of killing better than half the party.
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