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Old 05-23-2010, 05:39 AM   #1
Maz
 
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Default Combat perk querry: Weapon adaptation and Form Mastery (Staff skill)

Hi I am a bit unsure about how other rule this and if there is an official way.

The problem here is the use of polearms or spears with the Staff skill.


Anyone can use a Polearm as a Staff. You then use Staff skill and the Staff stats: Sw+2 cr/Thr+2 cr | Reach 1,2 | Parry+2.


It is a free action to swicth between Polearm and Staff 'forms' at the start of your turn, unless it require changing number of hands (then it's a ready action).

---------------

Now the problem come with the combat perks and what exactly they do.


Form Mastery allow you to change freely between two skills, but it doesn't say if you can also freely change between 1h and 2h use.


However the real "problem" comes with Weapon Adaptation.
It allow you to use one (superior) weapon with another skill, for swords to fencing weapons this is easy, you just get the fencing bonuses. But how does it work for polearm-> staff. I have 3 different interpretations:

1) You get the best of both worlds. You could swing for imp+4 with a halberd at reach 3*. While still retaining a +2 parry (assuming you have enough ST to use it without Ready actions). You can also, always change to Reach 1 or 2 and attack with a cr+2 attack.

2) You only have to use one skill (staff) but can use the polearms superior
stats but it still requires an action to change between Staff or polearm form. So you could attack at reach 3* for sw+4 imp but then can't get the +2 from parry in the same turn (unless you also have Form Mastery).

3) You can only use the superior polearm stats on attacks that matches the Staff stats. So you can thrust at reach 1 or 2 for +2, but now it's impaling instead. And you can swing at reach 2 (not 1 or 3) for either impaling or cut, but only +2 dam.
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:18 AM   #2
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Combat perk querry: Weapon adaptation and Form Mastery (Staff skill)

As luck would have it, there was just a few days ago a thread on this topic, including a comment by Kromm.
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:49 PM   #3
Maz
 
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Default Re: Combat perk querry: Weapon adaptation and Form Mastery (Staff skill)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
As luck would have it, there was just a few days ago a thread on this topic, including a comment by Kromm.
Yes I know that thread, you will notice I posted in it.

That thread is part of the reason I ask these questions. Kromm doesn't address any of these questions.
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:02 PM   #4
Dinadon
 
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Default Re: Combat perk querry: Weapon adaptation and Form Mastery (Staff skill)

I think you should look at the Grip Mastery perk in PU2:Perks, though I'm not certain it will answer your question.
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: Combat perk querry: Weapon adaptation and Form Mastery (Staff skill)

Then why start another thread and scatter the answers? Three days old can't count as "necromancy" by any reasonable definition.
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:14 PM   #6
Maz
 
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Default Re: Combat perk querry: Weapon adaptation and Form Mastery (Staff skill)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinadon View Post
I think you should look at the Grip Mastery perk in PU2:Perks, though I'm not certain it will answer your question.
Yes I know about that one. That's why I wanted to know if Form Mastery can do the same. I doubt it. Thanks though. [edit]but actually now that I read what I just wrote the answer has to be "no" because that would sort of make Grip mastery invalid in some cases. [/edit]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Then why start another thread and scatter the answers? Three days old can't count as "necromancy" by any reasonable definition.
Because they are not about the same maybe? It's similar but not the same.
The OP in that thread got his answer. That answer is not the answer to my question so asking my question in his thread would be related but not on topic. And I prefer threads to be on topic if possible.

Last edited by Maz; 05-23-2010 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:56 PM   #7
vsh
 
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Default Re: Combat perk querry: Weapon adaptation and Form Mastery (Staff skill)

In RAW nothing changes but the skill used to wield a halberd: same damage, same drawbacks, 0U parry score. +2 to parry is special quality of a quaterstaff, not skill itself.
RAI taking Weapon Adaptation in this case is senseless. Any imaginable use of halberd with staff skill is covered by, well, weilding a halberd with staff skill. With or without Form Mastery perk. Halberd from BS doesn't have an entry under staff skill but dueling polearms from MA do. You can extrapolate.
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Combat perk querry: Weapon adaptation and Form Mastery (Staff skill)

I don't believe polearms get the +2 parry score. There is a Naginata entry under Staff skill in Basic, and Martial Arts includes every new polearm under its Staff skill entry, and they all have 0U or 0 parry modifiers, and the lower quarterstaff crushing-only damage. The only weapons that appear to get the +2 parry trait with the Staff skill are actual staffs, and that funky Qian Kun Ri Yue Dao (Which is basically a bladed staff, anyway). It seems to be a trait of the weapon, not the skill.

The only weapons I think it would be fair to use would be the spears that are balanced-parry when used two-handed; Spear, Long Spear, and Short Spear (Which would map properly to Quarterstaff, Long Staff, and Jo perfectly for weight and reach). Spear-heads are small and light enough that it seems quite fair to count them as still balanced for use as a staff.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:49 AM   #9
Maz
 
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Default Re: Combat perk querry: Weapon adaptation and Form Mastery (Staff skill)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon View Post
I don't believe polearms get the +2 parry score.
I see your point. I actually thought they did get the +2, but I see they do not.

I also agree with you about the spear. Especially because using combination-weapons you can just take a staff and ad a spearpoint for exactly the same effect. You can't just create a halberd or naginata using combination-weapons.


Ok, then, we are back at the question the other thread actually asked, what's the benefit of using a polearm with staff skill, with weapon adaptation? So I guess I'll hop over to that thread as Anaraxes also suggested.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: Combat perk querry: Weapon adaptation and Form Mastery (Staff skill)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsh View Post
+2 to parry is special quality of a quarterstaff, not skill itself.
Are you sure?

From the description of the staff skill (B208) - emphasis mine:
"Staff (DX/Average): Any long, balanced pole without a striking head.
This skill makes good use of the staffs extensive parrying surface when defending, giving +2 to your Parry score. Defaults: Polearm-4 or Spear-2"
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