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Old 07-08-2019, 07:59 PM   #31
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Dead Frank (on record as deceased)

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Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
Let's say you have a group of four people who are going to be adventurers, and one of them is someone who is legally dead and can't obtain a valid ID proving they are indeed who they say they are, and not assuming the identity of a deadman.

Frank can't rent a car for us to ride to another city, he can't rent a u-haul. He very likely can't rent a hotel room. He can't buy guns from licensed dealers. If stopped by the police, he is likely to pick up undue attention. If we need to get into a bar to meet a witness, say a stripper: not having id is likely to complicate the matter. Carrying a firearm without id is going to be a hassle, while having an ID and possibly permit is definitely preferable. Sending money electronically is going to be a head-ache.

Frank can have wealth: but if he can't prove he's Frank and he's Alive, because he has no ID, he's going to have to either carry it in cash or expensive items. Carrying lots of cash or having a lot of portable, valuable items is in itself a problem. He arguably may even have status, it's just there will be times when he will be unable to prove he is indeed the real Frank, and not somebody attempting to steal a dead man's identity.

Frank is going to be a drag on normal or adventuring life. He's got a disadvantage at least as onerous as a criminal record,
I wasn't arguing it wasn't a disadvantage. I was arguing that it wasn't worse than a criminal record.
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:08 PM   #32
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Dead Frank (on record as deceased)

In terms of your ability to get jobs and the like, it's pretty similar to being an illegal alien, though you aren't at risk of deportation. It also probably results in loss of assets when acquired, but you would not normally assign a point value to that, just buy a wealth/status level matching what you managed to retain.
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:06 AM   #33
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: Dead Frank (on record as deceased)

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Originally Posted by Michele View Post
The point is, however, that even if you can solve the problem (and it may be an interesting role-playing opportunity to boot), you still are at a disadvantage in comparison with anybody not being in that situation. it's not that what you want is impossible - it is, however, riskier, more expensive, inconvenient, requiring more time and effort, etc. etc.

At least, that's my take.
There is a whole theory of disasters which starts from the observation that they often begin from several minor and seemingly trivial things going wrong. If you are using the normal solution (eg. renting an apartment) and something goes wrong, the workaround is probably not that difficult, if you are already using a workaround (eg. couch-surfing), the workaround is probably difficult, dangerous, or uncertain. In GURPS terms, civilians are rolling at +4 to +6 for most tasks, people on the margins of society are usually rolling at +2 even before the adventure happens.

It seems like a disadvantage worth -1 to -5 to me, aside from making it hard to have Wealth above Average.
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Last edited by Polydamas; 07-09-2019 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:19 AM   #34
evileeyore
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Default Re: Dead Frank (on record as deceased)

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Originally Posted by Žorkell View Post
Even if you look old enough? As in do they ask for ID every time?
Depends on where you go. Some states it's set as "Card if they don't look [AGE X]" and some are "always Card".

Some establishments will always card regardless, most national chains since they operate in areas where this is the law of the land, and some because they got burned once.
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Old 07-09-2019, 12:29 PM   #35
Black Leviathan
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Default Re: Dead Frank (on record as deceased)

I'd say social stigma might be much less severe. People find folks who don't have working identification to be sketchy but in some parts of the world is very normal. I'd rate it like Social Stigma Criminal. Perhaps valuable property in large cities or civilized countries with conservative attitudes like the US or Europe. In modern India however identification is less pervasive and record keeping is not as severe. You can solve your death by simply showing up at the DMV and saying "I am alive..Please correct it."

The state of not being able to be billed or have your history referenced would be zeroed. If you can rent property or have credit cards your Fake ID would be an Alternate Identity, if it's just beer and cigarettes then it's a 1pt Perk Fake ID.
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:02 PM   #36
ravenfish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: Dead Frank (on record as deceased)

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Originally Posted by Black Leviathan View Post
In modern India however identification is less pervasive and record keeping is not as severe. You can solve your death by simply showing up at the DMV and saying "I am alive..Please correct it."
Not to argue with the general point, but India may be a poor example. Said country appears to have a non-negligible problem with legally dead individuals being unable to get the government to treat them as alive without hideously lengthy and Kaftka-esque proceedings (see, for example, the "Uttar Pradesh Association of Dead People"). In at least some cases, there are allegations that relatives bribed bureaucrats to have people declared dead for the purpose of hastening inheritances(it's less messy than murder, I suppose).

EDIT: The adventure possibilities are interesting. Another thought that occurs is whether, in a highly theocratic realm, religious supernatural effects might begin to treat the unfortunate as dead or undead (since, after all, the religious apparatus says he is dead, and surely they can't be wrong). This is a different disadvantage than the one we are discussing, of course.
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Old 07-09-2019, 05:56 PM   #37
Verjigorm
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Charlotte, North Caroline, United States of America, Earth?
Default Re: Dead Frank (on record as deceased)

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
I wasn't arguing it wasn't a disadvantage. I was arguing that it wasn't worse than a criminal record.
The worst parts of Criminal Record: reaction penalties and being treated like a criminal, shared with being Dead Frank, but in addition, there are strong limits on property rights, that are similar to other disadvantages, though not exactly mirrored. Social Stigma(Legally Dead), even without being considered a dangerous monster, is more restrictive than Social Stigma(Criminal) and should be worth more points.
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