rules for property ownership

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by midnight77

I'm running a TL8 game and one of the characters want's to start with owning a farm and some land. Are there rules for something like this during character creation?

To make things very simple ...

As other said above, if the character is a farmer, then, that farm and those lands are just part of his job, and provide his monthly pay. See Jobs, Basic Set, Campaigns, page 516-518.

If it is something he has in addition to his ordinary job, then why not just making it an independant income? See Independant Income, Basic Set, Characters, page 26.

And if, after a while, he wants to sell that farm and those lands, you will just have to use the rule Trading Points for Money on the same page.

Example: A TL8 character spends 10 character points for Independant Income. Every month, he gets his monthly pay (thanks to his job) plus 10% of his starting wealth, that is $2,000. He decides to sell his farm and lands ... After paying taxes, real estate agents, and so on, he gets 10 x 10% of the standard starting wealth average, that is $20,000. Or he can invest the money in stock options to get another equivalent Independant Income ...

Of course, things will remain very abstract (and not very realistic). But, you won't have to worry about detail and will be able to focus on the most important thing: adventures.

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by midnight77

I'm running a TL8 game and one of the characters want's to start with owning a farm and some land. Are there rules for something like this during character creation?

Keep in mind at TL8, unless this is a small "organic" farm on the outskirts of civilization, the farm and all of its equipment, animals, etc. will be worth millions of #currency. Just look at the price of a tractor.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Culture20

Keep in mind at TL8, unless this is a small "organic" farm on the outskirts of civilization, the farm and all of its equipment, animals, etc. will be worth millions of #currency. Just look at the price of a tractor.

Ehh, I grew up around "Family Farms" in the US (mostly they were ranchers) and you can certainly have a farm that will feed your family without needing millions of dollars. They aren't cheap though: such farms are worth hundreds of thousands, between the land they sit on, the equipment, the buildings, and the 100 head of cattle*.

This stuff generally isn't new, and you can't get purchase price for it. The folks I knew worked hard, and their kids worked hard, and when things got tough, their supposedly retired grandfathers (who would have previously owned the farm) worked hard.

But a farm is only worth millions if its large enough to employ more than one family (at least absent some of the automation that's come out in the last 20 years), or the stubborn family has insisted on farming it while encroaching suburbs have sent the local property values sky high (for farmland).

*that's a guess, I never asked Joe how many cattle he owns. And the nubmer appears to go up and down drastically. It could be 50, it could be 100, it could be 200. Or he could just be selling feed to everyone else at the moment, rumor had it he did that for a while.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Culture20

Keep in mind at TL8, unless this is a small "organic" farm on the outskirts of civilization, the farm and all of its equipment, animals, etc. will be worth millions of #currency. Just look at the price of a tractor.

It's worth pointing out that any real property is likely to include a mortgage or other secured debt, so even if it would sell for millions, that doesn't mean you're worth millions, because you'd have to pay or transfer the debt.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I have no idea how to turn GURPS into a game of wealth maximization.

I doubt it would be that hard, unless you're very concerned about getting the exact right numbers. But you do almost certainly start by throwing out everything relating to Wealth in the existing text and replacing it with something more bookkeeping-oriented. (Which, after all, Dungeon Fantasy has done before...)

Oh, and obviously don't expect any sort of effective balance, because wealth maximization is a snowballing exercise where, quite literally, the rich get richer.

[Black Leviathan]

My current game has a player who owns some property in the mountains. I basically split his comfortable lifestyle into a tiny apartment and a few acres of Forrest land in the boonies. One is a rental, the other mortgaged with very little capital.

If he wanted to own the land outright he'd have to have the wealth to buy it, which wouldn't cost much in his case. You can look at comparable property in the region on real-estate websites for a reference.

If he wanted his land to be workable for crops or other resources he'd could support it through his wealth if it required his sweat, or he could buy independent income if someone was working his land selling the crops for him.