Berserk and Jet Attacks

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I see no reason why a berserker armed with a firearm would be unable to use Move and Attack to shoot at you while running forward. Indeed, charging forward with a fully-loaded weapon and not unloading it toward the nearest foe seems like inappropriate behavior for such.

Conceptually speaking, I don't either, just going by the literal RAW, which actually would require a Berserker who's less than 20 yards from an opponent to run AWAY from them to be able to shoot the gun at them.

Problem being, Berserkers can only run TOWARD opponents, but I think there's a trick to this, if aforementioned minions are swarming...

The solution is, you grab the minion and chuck him behind you, and then it's okay for you to run backward because it's running toward the minion :)

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Plane

Conceptually speaking, I don't either, just going by the literal RAW, which actually would require a Berserker who's less than 20 yards from an opponent to run AWAY from them to be able to shoot the gun at them.

Eh, even going by the literal RAW, "hand weapon" isn't really a term of art in GURPS, so while it was probably intended to refer to a melee weapon, using it for a firearm should be just fine, and "within 20 yards" allows for a Move and Attack, no problem (in fact, it says you must do so, if it's an option).

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Plane

Conceptually speaking, I don't either, just going by the literal RAW, which actually would require a Berserker who's less than 20 yards from an opponent to run AWAY from them to be able to shoot the gun at them.

No it doesn't. There is no text preventing making ranged attacks from within 20 yards.

[Plane]

B124 contrasts "hand weapon" with "ranged weapon", so I think it's intended to mean a non-ranged weapon.

HW is a phrase we see elsewhere:
*B124 (Blindness)

You can use hand weapons, but you cannot target a particular hit location.
If using a ranged weapon, you can only attack randomly

*B169 "Hand-to-hand weapon skills are grouped under Melee Weapon"
*B209 "Some hand weapons defy easy classification. For instance:" near end of Melee Weapon skill, preceding tonfa
*B336: on character sheet, also contrast with ranged weapons (different sections)

Viewed collectively, even if it lacks a glossary entry, it seems pretty clear "hand weapon" is short for "hand-to-hand weapon" which is a synonym for "melee weapon", and not simply referring to any weapon held in the hand, like a ranged gun.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Plane

B124 contrasts "hand weapon" with "ranged weapon", so I think it's intended to mean a non-ranged weapon.

Even if "hand weapon" means "melee weapon", there is nothing preventing you from making ranged attacks, because the clause about hand weapons:

1. Does not say what happens if you are not armed with a hand weapon.
2. Does not specify what weapon you need to attack with.

[Plane]

I think regarding:

If armed with a hand weapon, you must make an All-Out Attack each turn a foe is in range

Even though it does not say "with that hand weapon" the implication is pretty clear that you're doing an AOA with that hand weapon, and not, say, AOA:Determined with the squirt gun you happened to be holding when you entered berserk state.

Consider how the next bullet sounds like giving permission:

If the enemy is more than 20 yards away, you may attack with a ranged weapon

The implication there is if they're less than (or equal to) 20 yards that you may NOT attack with a ranged weapon.

Which seems like it is derived from the implication in the previous bullet that you MUST make an all-out-attack (or a move, or a move-and-attack). The context being the aforementioned hand (melee) weapon, or else there would be no need to define a special circumstance of permission for making a ranged attack in the next bullet.

"Armed with a hand weapon" may well apply to a punch/fist, if any foes are within reach. I'm not sure if that means sharing hex (C range) or if reach is meant to take the distance you can go forward with 1/2 Move into account too.

The transition point between AOA and the other 2 allowed maneuvers might well be "even if I used all my Movement Points to get closer, I don't have a weapon with Reach long enough to hit them".

At which point you must do a Move and Attack if your Move WOULD get you within reach to hit them, or else a Move if it would not.

AOA (Long) which Berserkers can use (mentions this in MA) might change that a bit, since the +1 reach does increase the "danger radius" of AOA.

Another aspect of MA which might change things is how it allows AOA to use full move (instead of half move) if attacking with a Slam...

In which case, if normal AOA (1/2 move) doesn't get you in reach, you would probably need to use AOA to do a slam, and only if that wasn't close enough (which only applies if they're further than Move+1 away, since you can take a Flying Tackle to get +1 reach), could you actually use Move and Attack to hit with a 2+ reach weapon.

That makes it a better idea than ever to wear heavy armor is you're a berserker: the reduced move from encumbrance will lessen your "I can only AOA" radius for slamming guys. Also a good idea to use long weapons.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by Anthony

No it doesn't. There is no text preventing making ranged attacks from within 20 yards.

I came into this expecting to be on the other side of the debate, but reading it I have to ask: If there is no limit to where you can make a ranged attack while berserking, why would it mention 20 yards at all?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by talonthehand

I came into this expecting to be on the other side of the debate, but reading it I have to ask: If there is no limit to where you can make a ranged attack while berserking, why would it mention 20 yards at all?

That's the range at which you have to charge, beyond that range you can stand still and shoot. Honestly, Berserk is poorly written, but if I have to choose between an interpretation that allows move and attack, and an interpretation that requires moving without attacking, I'm going to go with the first because a berserker should be attacking every turn if they can.

[Rupert]

It seems reasonably clear to me that inside 20 yards you charge firing your gun (most probably at maximum RoF) yelling at the top of your lungs, like in the action movies.

[Sorenant]

I'm imagining something like a dragon with berserk and using his breath attack, and if so I don't think it's worth obsessing over RAW. The spirit of the disadvantage is that the character will be fighting with reckless abandon everything within sight, so as long as the player is making moves that feels in line with that premise I see no reason to apply the rules as written.

For example, even if using ranged attacks from 20 yards away is allowed by RAW, I wouldn't accept plays like "my character is 21 yards away from the enemy so I'll attack while keeping this distance", but I would have no problem allowing "my character is 16 yards away from the closest enemy, so I'll move and attack in its direction while blasting his shotgun". Or, in the case of a dragon, keep using move-and-attack or all-out attack to use breath weapon while charging in the enemy direction and then switching to claws and teeth once within range.

Besides, 20 yards is something for a SM+0 human, another thing for a SM+6 dragon.