Hellboy - Advantage: Shapeshift

[krank]

On p. 35 of the Hellboy core rulebook, the Advantage called "shapeshift" is described. It lacks a complete example, which would have been very useful in trying to understand how it works.

In essence, one creates one alternate form, like a "secondary character", with its own sheet. One adds up the "positive changes" (higher attributes, added advantages, added skills are mentioned) to a "positive point total", and then one adds togeather all the "negative changes" (lower attributes and added disadvantages are mentioned) and apply this "negative point total" as a Limitation to the Positive Point Total...

I think I've figured it out - but I have one question: What about disadvantages that are removed from the original form upon transformation? The book mentions what happens to added advantages and added disadvantages, and notes that one ignores both removed advantages and skills... But removed disadvantages aren't mentioned at all.

The logical thing would be to treat these removed disadvantages as gained advantages - but as both removed advantages and removed skills don't count, I am unsure.

Any thoughts?

[PK]

I don't have the Hellboy book, but I do have other GURPS/3e books which used the same "Quick and Dirty Shapeshifting" rules, and the way I read it, you create a "positive point total (PPT)" and "negative point total (NPT)" based on the total points that you're losing and gaining. So, lost disadvantages are added to your PPT and lost advantages should be added to your NPT. If the Hellboy rules specifically contradict this, I'm not sure what to tell you -- I'd recommend just ignoring that part of them. :)

[krank]

Originally Posted by Rev_Pee_Kitty

I don't have the Hellboy book, but I do have other GURPS/3e books which used the same "Quick and Dirty Shapeshifting" rules, and the way I read it, you create a "positive point total (PPT)" and "negative point total (NPT)" based on the total points that you're losing and gaining. So, lost disadvantages are added to your PPT and lost advantages should be added to your NPT. If the Hellboy rules specifically contradict this, I'm not sure what to tell you -- I'd recommend just ignoring that part of them. :)

Ah. Sounds reasonable - and like I said, the rulebook doesn't mention lost disads at all... But somehow remembers to mention all the other variables...

As far as I know, Hellboy uses a slightly modified version of the 3e Lite rules, to which certain special rules have been added (and in some cases, modified) in order to simulate the Hellboy setting.

Which 3e books contain the rules you mentioned? I'd like to look it up, if and when given the opportunity...

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by krank

Which 3e books contain the rules you mentioned? I'd like to look it up, if and when given the opportunity...

Shapeshifters is the most relevant.

[PK]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Shapeshifters is the most relevant.

Except that Shapeshifters was the book that abolished the "Quick and Dirty Shapeshifting" rules that Hellboy used in favor of a more balanced model -- so bear in mind that it's only a book to go to if you're looking for something different. (This is not a warning, BTW -- the rules in Shapeshifters are the best versions around for GURPS Third Edition.)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Rev_Pee_Kitty

Except that Shapeshifters was the book that abolished the "Quick and Dirty Shapeshifting" rules that Hellboy used in favor of a more balanced model -- so bear in mind that it's only a book to go to if you're looking for something different. (This is not a warning, BTW -- the rules in Shapeshifters are the best versions around for GURPS Third Edition.)

Yes, sorry, I was being unclear. Blame my natural snarkiness. I much preferred the rules in Shapeshifters to the earlier version, that's why I was recommending it. If you aren't going to switch to 4e, then at least use the best 3e rules.

Wasn't Bestiary the first book with the Q&D shapeshifter rules?

[krank]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yes, sorry, I was being unclear. Blame my natural snarkiness. I much preferred the rules in Shapeshifters to the earlier version, that's why I was recommending it. If you aren't going to switch to 4e, then at least use the best 3e rules.

"best", on the other hand, is always subjective. I will look up the Shapeshifters book if I get the chance. I will use the rules that is easiest to use, the most flexible, and the most cinematic (since Hellboy is a highly cinematic game).

I've been thinking of doing a conversion of the Hellboy rules to 4e (if published, it will have no descriptions of skills and so on, just updated costs and mechanics). Trying to figure out what books I need... The original uses, amongst other things, the ritual magic rules and the Spirits rules of GURPS Spirits, extremely simplified Magery rules, and a very specialized set of Psionics... Plus a few other tweaks and stuff (it's all detailed and referenced in the Hellboy book), and the whole shebang uses the Lite rules rather than the full 3e.

Conversion SHOULDN't be too difficult. Provided that there are 4e books containing the neccessary updated rules, that is...