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Old 11-03-2012, 02:09 AM   #41
combatmedic
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Default Re: Yrth pagans

'Witchcraft suppression', by the way, was not a big deal in the main period of Banestorm activity(11th through early 13th Centuries AD). The great era of witch hunts was actually an Early Modern thing, not Medieval.

And not all 'magic' was forbidden by the Church in Medieval times. Many magical customs or beliefs were condemned as pagan superstition. Not treason against God, as the later witchunters would describe 'witchcraft.' Some other things that we might call now label 'magic' were ignored or deemed acceptable. 'Science' and 'magic' weren't really seperate pursuits in that time.

The attempted use of magic to curse and harm people was, in most places a civil/secular crime.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:27 AM   #42
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Default Re: Yrth pagans

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
About the only way that would work is if...

The people who are transported away from Earth to Yrth are transplanted in the same area as the one they originated in, and that the lands were to their eyes, the same.
What?This comment confuses the heck out of me.
:)

No, no, I specified a 'distant part' of the world.
That's the whole point. They looked around and saw that they were not at home. The lands were NOT the same.

They weren't dead. That would be obvious to people who hadn't totally lost their wits. They ate, drank, left pain, had babies, got sick, defecated, etc. The place wasn't the fiery pit of Hell, and it sure as hell didn't seem like Heaven. :)
A few people no doubt thought of Purgatory but--'Purgatory' was not yet described as Dante would describe it in his Divine Comedy. It was a place or a state/process of purgation and cleansing fire. I don't think most 11th or 12th Century Latin Christians would immediately say 'aha, must be Purgatory.' It's certainly possible, but probably would not have been the majority view.


Considering how much of the world was unknown to Medieval people, even well-read or well-travelled ones, it seems most likely that people would assume they were on Earth.
Many peasants probably just scratched their head and more-or-less believed whatever their betters told him.
Scholars might think of the Antipodes, lands in Asia beyond Prester Jon’s realms, the half-mythical Indies, etc.
They didn't have an Infinite World theory, after all. Realizing that other worlds, not afterlives but physical planets with earthlike conditions, existed would be a big revelation. It’s not the obvious conclusion, especially not for pre-modern people with a limited knowledge of Earth’s geography.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:28 AM   #43
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Default Re: Yrth pagans

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
The attempted use of magic to curse and harm people was, in most places a civil/secular crime.
To what degree were secular and religious crimes distinguished?

Incidentally, another fix to the Celts issue (that also fixes issues with Megalos) is to declare that the Banestorm actually pulled people from earlier time periods as well.

Last edited by Anthony; 11-03-2012 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:30 AM   #44
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Default Re: Yrth pagans

One thing that everyone would notice on the first night was that the stars were different.

That's no doubt the single biggest factor which ultimately convinced people once and for all it wasn't Old Earth.

Medieval people saw the stars a lot more than most of us see them.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:34 AM   #45
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Default Re: Yrth pagans

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To what degree were secular and religious crimes distinguished?
Fairly in some times and places, less so in others.

Enforcement was usually left up to secular authorities, but a series of 'Inquistions' in the 12 and early 13th Centuries blurred the lines in cases of heresy.

The Church did not, as a rule, execute anybody. But an unrepentant heretic might be handed over to secular authorities for punsihment, including death in some cases.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:44 AM   #46
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Default Re: Yrth pagans

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post

Incidentally, another fix to the Celts issue (that also fixes issues with Megalos) is to declare that the Banestorm actually pulled people from earlier time periods as well.
I mentioned that fix in the very first post. It has come up several times since then.

Thanks, though! The idea seems popular.

It's not really doing it for me.

But YMMV.

At this point I'm inclined to mostly ignore those 'pagan Celts.'
I don't really see very much 'Celtic' stuff in the Nomad Lands, aside from 'bards' and druids' (the former seem kind of generic, and the latter don't sound a whole lot like historical druids).

Unless the Wicca-like 'Old Religion' counts as 'Celtic.' I don't think that it should. But it could certainly take on a Celtic neo-pagan flavor.

I rather like Astromancer's ideas about Odin, the Scots Isles and Highlands, giant ravens, etc.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:00 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
One thing that everyone would notice on the first night was that the stars were different.
By Banestorm, Yrth is a geologically variant Earth due to extremely ancient bombardment by asteroids bearing mana-rich material.

So the continents are different but the stars should be the same.

I'm not sure if Banestorm specifies if the face of Yrth's Moon is different for the same reason of variant bombardment.

Earlier versions of Yrth that were not created with consideration towards IW meta-cosmology might say different things about the moon and the stars.

Yrth having a moon of the same size and in the same palce as ours would be awfuly conspicuous to us but probably go unremarked by TL2-3 peasants.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:10 AM   #48
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Here's a hypothesis.

Many now reading this might happen to believe that modern Wicca was created over a particularly good bag of weed in Haight Ashbury sometime c. 1965.

However, Wiccan tradition has it that Wicca existed as a wainscott "true" religion among rural folk long after the coming of Christianity and Christianity was given only lip service.

The truth of this proposition for our world may be whatever but even if the Banestorm only brought _Humans_ from one world it does not have to be exactly like ours. It's plain that the Banestorm brough non-humans from worlds different from ours and probably not from all the same world.

So what the Early Medieval Church believed to be The Truth with a capital "T" on Yrth's prime Human-donor world may or may not have been particularly true far from the major cities and monasteries.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:11 AM   #49
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Default Re: Yrth pagans

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
About the only way that would work is if...

The people who are transported away from Earth to Yrth are transplanted in the same area as the one they originated in, and that the lands were to their eyes, the same.

What happens if only people are transported via the banestorm? Then all the houses, possessions, and landmarks disappear and the people wake up with essentially nothing (no tools, no food, etc)

What happens if the immediate surroundings are transported ala the ring of fire from 1632 series for a radius of say, 5 miles? Anything outside of the five miles mark is ALIEN to the experiences of those who know their immediate surroundings like the back of their hands. Now, to be really nasty? What happens if it is summertime on earth, and winter time in Yrth when the people arrive in Yrth?

The transportation from Earth to Yrth. Is it mild? Is it unnoticable? Is it cataclysmic? Was it a village about to be destroyed by a volcano - and the inhabitants are spared death only to arrive in a new location?

How the transplanting occurs, by what agency it occurs, and how the lands look to where the transplanting occurs, will determine whether people "think they're still on Earth" or if they're elsewhere. If they no longer can reach distant parts for trade, or tribute (recieving or giving for that matter), someone is going to wonder and realize they're not in Kansas.
Don't forget that for Medievals, a large part of the Earth WAS like Yrth. Especially for peasants. Educated people of course knew that the world was round and knew it's approximate dimensions. But even they knew only a tiny part of Earth. And the stories that did turn out to be true were rather weird themselves,"What you mean the dress the most beautiful courtesan in Venice wears is made by WORMS? Give me a break."
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:16 AM   #50
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Default Re: Yrth pagans

Quote:
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To what degree were secular and religious crimes distinguished?
Less then one might think. A lot of persecutions were motivated as much because the having a different religion then one's monarch is potentially seditious, certainly to a monarch who claimed to be a direct vassal of God.
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