12-27-2015, 04:15 AM | #51 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Technological development without fire.
It's not realistic or logical to be non-divergent with that extreme of TL differences in technologies, in my opinion.
One; of course. Two; unusual but sure. Three or more; not really. Eight? No freaking way.
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12-27-2015, 04:31 AM | #52 | |
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand.
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Re: Technological development without fire.
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Granted this may be more of a disagreement about terminology. TL 2+8 (magic) being a setting where technology never developed as there was no need as you could do it all with a spell or fourteen. Geothermal springs with the right impurities can also have a temperature higher than boiling point. Which could be useful. One thing I have thought about regarding tech levels is how much is knowledge and how much is infrastructure? Is the hall mark of TL 8 the computer or the Internet? So to speak.
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12-27-2015, 08:28 AM | #53 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Technological development without fire.
Herbicide (just to get my pedantry for the day out of the way).
It binds to an enzyme, "ESPS synthase", in an amino acid synthesis pathway that's important for growth in plants (contributing to 25-33% of their mass), but absent in animals, fish, and insects. It wouldn't make a good insecticide. That pathway exists in fungi and bacteria, so glyphosate has been investigated as a possible anti-microbial agent. "Roundup Ready" crops have additional genes for making ESPS synthase inserted, so they make more enzyme and thus better withstand the effects of a given amount of glyphosate. Also, these genes are from a bacterium that makes a slightly different version of the enzyme, so glyphosate binds less well to it in the first place. I didn't see any references to the direct application of fire during the process of copying genes from the bacterium to crop plant cells :) |
12-27-2015, 08:43 AM | #54 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Technological development without fire.
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This is your baby, but if you keep the idea that they aren't going to use fire but that they are willing to magically modify themselves, just do that. Reduced Consumption 2 (Cast-Iron Stomach, -50%) [2] with either Immunity to Disease or some level of Resistance, and perhaps the same for Poison (either Immunity or Resistance) so that they just don't need to cook their foods. If mana levels fluctuate in your setting to the point where no mana is common enough to justify it you might also make it Magical (worth whatever percentage is appropriate to the campaign level). If "No Mana" areas are a "thing" then it could be interesting when suddenly a Wood Elf used to eating everything raw is forced to cook, to starve or to suffer the way a human wood eating everything raw.
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12-27-2015, 11:39 AM | #55 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Technological development without fire.
But that takes us back do "You have to give them things that wouldn't really work". It wouldn't really work to give people who know nothing but selective breeding a degree of capability with it that matches TL 8 biology. You have to fudge.
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12-27-2015, 01:44 PM | #56 | |
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand.
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Re: Technological development without fire.
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Regarding cooking food without fire there are a few real world examples. In Samoa lemon juice is used to chemically cook fish. Pinapple also contains an enzyme that breaks down animal protein. Thinking about saving fire for the guests. Playing up the appearance of primative more. Stone work, fibrework and Resins for building and tool construction. Some parrelels to carbon fibre and fibre glass products. Knowledge of Selective breeding and observation enough to pick up dominant and recessive gene traits is quite a big thing when the people doing the breeding are unaging and have a few thousand year head start. I hope to get a plausible elven society that is advanced enough to support royalty, semi professional or professional soldiers and a society where there is enough stratification and specialisation to have "character class level templates" (kind of) Example a wood elven scout while not necessarily a character template does have several features that are obvious. High outdoor skills, primitive of a sort. And a distinctive equipment set.
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12-27-2015, 02:43 PM | #57 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Technological development without fire.
Also in South America, there is a dish called ceviche I believe, fish in lemon or lime juice.
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12-27-2015, 02:57 PM | #58 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Re: Technological development without fire.
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It wouldn’t BE TL8 genetics -the produced species would be more hearty from not having been part of a 'forced evolution' program that normally involves purposely causing genetic damage, but would also be critically slow to develop: They might have 'roundup ready' crops, but if the weeds started getting resistance they'd have no way to change to something else. They might have plenty of penicillin from selectively breeding moulds that make it more accessible, but basically no way to produce macrobid), but it would have similar end results with the process itself having some upsides and downsides. |
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12-27-2015, 03:04 PM | #59 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Technological development without fire.
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Now, doing this to create guest quarters because a "responsible" Wood elf is near by to deal with it if the silly primitive humans that fancy themselves advanced just because they are less capable at living at one with nature might need it? That has some potential. I think I'd still rather that the Wood Elves: 1) Just had fire anyway, but used it minimally (like for their own cooking, not anything remotely industrial) 2) Had adapted themselves to living without fire in the first place but that isn't for any compelling, game reason and just personal preference.
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) |
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12-27-2015, 03:19 PM | #60 |
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand.
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Re: Technological development without fire.
Regarding the speed of development. In modern selective breeding the speed of change is quite high. Admittedly there are lots of techniques that rely on modern equipment. Magic may replace them or not, personal world building decision there. Personally I would say not.
Anyway back to the speed of change. Chickens being the most extreme example have 800% more meat in their breast fillet than 40 years ago. The rate of change for their growth rate is 1 day faster for every year of breeding. The genetics of the last Rams I bought for my farm are measured against the 1987 standard and cover some 50 or so characteristics and are financially weighted. In 28 years the improvement is 187% and thus is in an 800 dollar ram not an 8000 dollar one.
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Waiting for inspiration to strike...... And spending too much time thinking about farming for RPGs Contributor to Citadel at Nordvörn Last edited by (E); 12-27-2015 at 11:14 PM. |
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