Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-14-2017, 10:40 AM   #31
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Weapon Bond & Signature Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
You could get a sword for 1 point of Signature Gear, and that seems way too cheap for subverting the basic design of the perk.
No, you can't.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 10:49 AM   #32
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Weapon Bond & Signature Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
That's not something you do with Weapon Bond. It's something you do with Signature Gear. In fact it's exactly what Signature Gear was designed to do in the first place.
Exactly. Which is why, if you have spent the points on Signature Gear, your fancy weapon ought to enjoy plot-protection.

Not the guarantee that you'll get another fancy weapon, equally expensive, but one that fits your character in the same way and it part of his legend, in the same way.

A good example is Bernard Cornwell's character Richard Sharpe, who famously carries a British Pattern 1796 Heavy Cavalry Sword, which is not standard equipment for an infantry officer. Not a Fine sword, not Balanced (anything but, really) and not an especially expensive sword, but, nevertheless, his sword. In the novel Sharpe's Sword, that sword is broken in a battle where Sharpe is almost killed.

While Sharpe hovers between life and death under the best medical care that is possible at the time (not very good), his best friend, Sergeant Harper, feeling powerless and frustrated, obtains another sword of the same pattern. Using a previously unmentioned facility with basic ironmonger's tools, Sergeant Harper shortens the blade and adjusts the guard to make it more comfortable to carry on foot. In his sentimental, superstitious way, Harper hopes that having his sword waiting for him will help Sharpe come back.

Whether it does or not, Sharpe lives. And when he awakens, a sword with the exact same game stats as the one he broke is waiting for him. And while it is not the same sword as the one he was given by a dying Rifle officer in the retreat from Corunna and had carried through several years of war, Sharpe can tell some of the sentiment that lies behind Harper's gift of the blade. And that means he values the new sword as much or more than he did his old one. Which, in turn, means that when he finally captures the Very Fine, Balanced saber which broke his old sword, he throws it in a river, preferring his sword.

To me, that seems a pretty clear case of a sword with Weapon Bond and Signature Gear being destroyed and the GM providing an in-game rationale for having the PC receive another sword which has a similar sentimental value instead, including just 'fitting' the character in some mysterious way which makes it preferable to an objectively superior weapon.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 11:30 AM   #33
Colarmel
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Northeast Kansas
Default Re: Weapon Bond & Signature Gear

In my mind, and in my games, Signature Gear and Weapon Bond are two sides of the same coin. I think they're both a huge character benefit for cost, and they need to be reflected in RP. If my swashbucklers (for whom signature gear and weapon bond are an option, not a requirement) want to change swords every time they find a magical sword better than their current one, they shouldn't take those advantages. And I won't allow them to constantly retake those points for every improved sword they find (although I doubt they'd want to).

That said, if I break their signature gear sword, of course it should be replaced with one that fits just like the old one.
Colarmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 12:28 PM   #34
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Weapon Bond & Signature Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
To me, that seems a pretty clear case of a sword with Weapon Bond and Signature Gear being destroyed and the GM providing an in-game rationale for having the PC receive another sword which has a similar sentimental value instead, including just 'fitting' the character in some mysterious way which makes it preferable to an objectively superior weapon.
On one hand, I see the argument. But on the other hand, it sounds as if the author has provided something very close to what I was asking for to buy Weapon Bond again: It's not just a matter of Sharpe's paying the character point, but of narrative time being spent on the provision of a suitable sword. The narrative time is spent by Sharpe's friend while Sharpe is lying in bed unconscious, but in RPG terms, a friend who gets that much attention is probably a fellow PC. Or did the story just jump from Sharpe losing his sword to his waking up and his friend saying, "Oh, hey, I had so and so make you this replacement sword!"?
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 12:32 PM   #35
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Weapon Bond & Signature Gear

It is just a point. If you somehow lose a weapon that you have both advantages with, then you don't keep Weapon Bond, but you can just spend another point (and a week in town and $40 at the Barbarian Encampment/Temple/Warrior's Guild/Dojo/Archery Range/Fencing Salle) to get another one.

I don't see any point in setting barriers to this one trait when you can train impossible things like Discriminatory Smell or Serendipity easily.

The rules don't support any such barriers either unless you are getting it as Extraordinary Training.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 12-14-2017 at 02:06 PM.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 12:44 PM   #36
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
Default Re: Weapon Bond & Signature Gear

If it happened (never did) in my games, the weapon bond would be gone. It is tied to one weapon
, the weapon is gone, end.
That said, if the weapon was lost in a way that mean it would get replaced due to Signature Gear protection, the player would have the opportunity to purchase weapon bond for the new weapon as soon as he have a free point, no further justification needed. It is Signature Gear, the weapon is his.
Celjabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 01:43 PM   #37
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Weapon Bond & Signature Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
That said, if the weapon was lost in a way that mean it would get replaced due to Signature Gear protection, the player would have the opportunity to purchase weapon bond for the new weapon as soon as he have a free point, no further justification needed. It is Signature Gear, the weapon is his.
That sounds like a plausible interpretation.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 02:56 PM   #38
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Weapon Bond & Signature Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
On one hand, I see the argument. But on the other hand, it sounds as if the author has provided something very close to what I was asking for to buy Weapon Bond again: It's not just a matter of Sharpe's paying the character point, but of narrative time being spent on the provision of a suitable sword. The narrative time is spent by Sharpe's friend while Sharpe is lying in bed unconscious, but in RPG terms, a friend who gets that much attention is probably a fellow PC. Or did the story just jump from Sharpe losing his sword to his waking up and his friend saying, "Oh, hey, I had so and so make you this replacement sword!"?
In an RPG, the friend would be an Ally. Or, more plausible, if there were multiple players, a few of the supporting characters would be given more screentime and agency to allow for more than one PC, in which case Harper would certainly be one of them.

Sgt. Patrick Harper did have a viewpoint chapter as he selected and modified Sharpe's new sword. One of only a handful of POV scenes for him, in some 30 books or, covering almost 30 years.

My point was, however, that Signature Gear buys that kind of narrative time investment. If you lose it, you can get it back. If the setting makes that impossible or impractical, you should get a replacement which fills the same dramatic role. Which, in the case of a mundane sword with Weapon Bond, is a sword that suits the character so well he prefers it over more expensive, more effective swords.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 03:34 PM   #39
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Weapon Bond & Signature Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
My point was, however, that Signature Gear buys that kind of narrative time investment. If you lose it, you can get it back. If the setting makes that impossible or impractical, you should get a replacement which fills the same dramatic role. Which, in the case of a mundane sword with Weapon Bond, is a sword that suits the character so well he prefers it over more expensive, more effective swords.
Signature Gear says you can get it back, and I'm not questioning that. But Weapon Bond says that you have to pay a character point for each new instance of Weapon Bond, and that you have to provide a storyline to show the process by which you acquire another weapon with equivalent suitability. I don't think either of those requirements is onerous enough to conflict with "you can get it back." Any GURPS character should have a point to spare, or be able to acquire one during a single adventure; and doing the dramatic scenes of trying to find That Special Sword is just roleplaying, same as if you had a broken arm and had to roleplay a session or two with One Arm.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 04:00 PM   #40
JoelSammallahti
 
JoelSammallahti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Weapon Bond & Signature Gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
But suppose that you have Weapon Bond and Signature Gear, and that means that if you lose your sword, you can just buy another sword, and it will be equally special.
I don't understand this. How do you mean buy? Doesn't the GM give you a replacement Sig Gear of his choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I stipulate that Signature Gear makes it unlikely that you'll lose the item, just as it's unlikely that you'll be blinded or crippled. But you're going to try to protect yourself against attacks that could permanently disable you, and you should try to protect yourself against losing your Signature Gear, too. And I prefer a rules interpretation that provides incentive to do that.
I don't follow your thinking here. I think it's unlikely you'll lose an ordinary item (at least, the vast majority of items that I've seen on character sheets have not been lost), just like it's unlikely you'll be blinded or crippled. But Signature Gear is extra insurance on top of that. The equivalent for blinding or crippling would be a perk that gives you protection against those things: if you get blinded, the GM has to offer you a chance to get your vision back if that's possible in the setting, and if it can't be done, he'll give you something equal in value to your lost eyesight.

Anyway, I think Signature Gear is designed to incentivize using your special piece of equipment: you're not going to leave your grandfather's nunchucks at home when going to the City of Thieves, because Signature Gear means you're not going to lose it to an unlucky Per roll against somebody's Pickpocket. And I think that's the opposite of trying to protect yourself from losing your Signature Gear.
JoelSammallahti is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.