Post-apocalyptic TL 5/8

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Agent

Airguns are a fairly logical alternative assuming the know-how is available and the steel machining capable of building air reservoirs that can hold 2500+ psi. And the air pumps. But if so, it's attractive to just need air and muscle and lead instead of cartridge cases, powder, etc.

Originally Posted by adm

Don't forget other ways to make fixed fortification weapons, such as steam.

I don't really won't some weird steampunk schizo-tech. What I want is a post-apocalyptic horror/western. The goal is a rationale for weapons and technology that wouldn't be totally out of place in the late 19th century.

[adm]

Fair enough, although the Maxim gun is mid 1880's, and there were Gatling guns in the U.S. Civil War era, with individually loaded casings along the line of muskets, that needed percussion caps on each round.

[Nosforontu]

I would guess that they could probably maintain fairly high TL technology level in regards to agriculture/ranching. We already have TL 8 seeds and have been breeding various food animals to be bigger and bigger. If they survive your apocolypse then then we are likely to have higher food yields compared to historical TL 5.

Secondly we could probably maintain fairly high tech levels in various softer scientific fields such as psychiatry/socialogy/economics with just the books surviving and an interest from the population.

Third in terms of medical tech, I suspect we could probably do a better job than historical TL5 in terms of disease prevention from just our better understanding of Germ theory and Sanitation.

Fourth we are probably going to get a number of knick knack techs that survive such as Blue Jeans (first invented in 1873), Hollywood Holsters rather than historical holster choices. Overall thanks to historical documentation the post apocolypse society can probably skip a significant amount of the experimentation period of tech developement cycle. Since they have teh historical documentation to go off and are simply reinventing tech rather than developing it for the first time.

Expect for this to result in less overall time spent on the experimentation period of tech developement and more on deciphering historicaly documented tech filling the various blanks in the documentation of older tech. You are probably going to see a great deal of Tech cherry picking over time by the various new TL 5+ Societies as they reimplement the "best tech choices" that their infrastructure will allow.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Nosforontu

I would guess that they could probably maintain fairly high TL technology level in regards to agriculture/ranching. We already have TL 8 seeds and have been breeding various food animals to be bigger and bigger. If they survive your apocolypse then then we are likely to have higher food yields compared to historical TL 5.

The apocalypse is ongoing and serves to depress crop yields both by occasionally infecting crops and by enforcing a whole host of complex food taboos.

Secondly we could probably maintain fairly high tech levels in various softer scientific fields such as psychiatry/socialogy/economics with just the books surviving and an interest from the population.

Yeah, especially since Telepathy is a thing.

Third in terms of medical tech, I suspect we could probably do a better job than historical TL5 in terms of disease prevention from just our better understanding of Germ theory and Sanitation.

Enough to change the medical TL to 6 or higher for First Aid and Physician rolls? Of course Germ Theory is solidly TL5 already.

Fourth we are probably going to get a number of knick knack techs that survive such as Blue Jeans (first invented in 1873), Hollywood Holsters rather than historical holster choices. Overall thanks to historical documentation the post apocolypse society can probably skip a significant amount of the experimentation period of tech developement cycle. Since they have teh historical documentation to go off and are simply reinventing tech rather than developing it for the first time.

Yes and this was the sort of detail I'm looking for here. What items and techniques that are technically TL6-8 by date of introduction but are totally possible for cottage industry production at TL5?

[Anthony]

Unless there's some obvious reason the Haber process isn't doable (historically TL 6, but the industrial requirements are not particularly severe) you're going to have smokeless powder. Once you have concentrated nitric acid, nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine are not difficult to produce.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Unless there's some obvious reason the Haber process isn't doable (historically TL 6, but the industrial requirements are not particularly severe) you're going to have smokeless powder. Once you have concentrated nitric acid, nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine are not difficult to produce.

Right, that's what I thought, and there's no reason they wouldn't use centerfire cartridges either, right?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Right, that's what I thought, and there's no reason they wouldn't use centerfire cartridges either, right?

It might be tough to make good smokeless powders, including good primers, but your main barrier looks to be purity, improperly prepared guncotton is extremely unstable (nitrocellulose was discovered in 1846, and the first practical smokeless powder was in 1884).

[Crakkerjakk]

Camelbacks, backpacks with good padded shoulder straps and hip belts, web gear, etc should all be pretty easily doable. A lot of modern LBE style stuff isn't particularly complicated but didn't catch on till later for some reason. Leather and cloth rather than synthetics though, obviously.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It might be tough to make good smokeless powders, including good primers, but your main barrier looks to be purity, improperly prepared guncotton is extremely unstable (nitrocellulose was discovered in 1846, and the first practical smokeless powder was in 1884).

So lower Malf numbers?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I don't really won't some weird steampunk schizo-tech. What I want is a post-apocalyptic horror/western. The goal is a rationale for weapons and technology that wouldn't be totally out of place in the late 19th century.

Limit production to black powder and you're pretty much limited to manual actions (revolver, lever, pump, bolt).. You won't get the velocity normally associated with bolt-action rifle either.

Maxim guns did predate smokeless powder but they jammed due to black powder fouling. This would do in gas-actions too. A recoil-operated autoloader _might_ be possible if designed from scratch but would probably jam just like the Maxims.

Electric motors are fairly likely as relic-tech and you could have black powder chain and miniguns but even hand-cranked Gatlings usually needed to be sited in a crosswind situation to keep from blinding the crew with powder smoke.

An AK-47 (or any other recoil-operated weapon native to the smokeless powder era) is very unlikely to cycle properly if you replace smokeless with black powder. They would become mostly minor caliber cartridges with black powder even if it did work. No black powder rifles below .450 are likely for serious combat. In the notes fro the Winchester on p.110 there are stats for a 32-20 Win but it only did 2D+1 P even from a rifle barrel. Carrying that much gun for that little effect isn't a good bargain.