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Old 07-25-2010, 11:58 AM   #11
wmkane
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunchkinMan View Post
I think we're just trying to make sure we can rule out certain amounts of bad behavior.
Eric,

It sounds like what you are talking about isn't actually a set of rules for Munchkin, but a set of gamers etiquette. Players who don't play honestly in a tournament should be willing to accept that dishonesty will lead to their having to forfeit.

Rolling a die and not allowing anyone to see the result of the roll before grabbing it back up, lying about a winning move that your about to make, or any other dishonest act need not have a rule written specifically for it. Etiquette is the law: If you play underhandedly, you are risking being ejected from the game (and worse yet, you have just earned a black mark that many will remember next time you sit down to play).

Just my .02 US. Use it as you see fit,
Bill Kane
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Old 07-25-2010, 12:48 PM   #12
Nerftw
 
Join Date: May 2010
Default Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own

I think you're grossly underestimating the capacity for a dishonest player to argue that if the rules don't say you can't do it, you can do it. Especially in a game that encourages back stabbing. While it's implied that this means within the rules of fair play, bad players will simply say that ANY dishonesty is still within the spirit of the game.

Not to mention the issue with promo items, especially easily reproduced ones such as the Munchkin mask, that can render a player immune for the entire game.

I haven't played in any tournaments, but I have played with some outright cheaters who cling to the "owner gets final say" (to mean they can say anything) and "2.5 seconds" (even when there's no way to see the card that's been played) rules before.
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:30 PM   #13
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own

While I respect Mr. Kane's desire not to outline too many rules of tournament etiquette, I disagree that we shouldn't be wasting our time with things that are "common sense." As nerftw points out, there are enough loopholes for munchkinly Munchkin players to exploit that I think we need to be clear about some common behaviors that are NOT acceptable.

To name just one: In a Munchkin tournament game, the tournament organizer is the final arbiter of rule questions, regardless of who actually supplied the sets. A player trying to play the "I'm the owner and what I say goes!" card is going to be badly disappointed.
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:16 PM   #14
Palmer
 
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Default Re: Official Tournament Rules vs. Your Own

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Originally Posted by Nerftw View Post
Not to mention the issue with promo items, especially easily reproduced ones such as the Munchkin mask, that can render a player immune for the entire game.
My thought on the easy solution to that is to limit it like bookmarks.
One per game, 2 if you change sex.
Or better yet, to classify it AS a bookmark, meaning using the mask counts as your bookmark for the game, and vice versa.

Personally, I'd limit items to one Permanent, and one Temporary. A temporary item is one that must be destroyed, consumed, given away or the like... pretty much after using it, you no longer own it. This covers most bookmarks.

Quote:
I haven't played in any tournaments, but I have played with some outright cheaters who cling to the "owner gets final say" (to mean they can say anything) and "2.5 seconds" (even when there's no way to see the card that's been played) rules before.
See, in my games, the "2.6 second rule" doesn't apply. Instead, I auctionize it.

Declare the situation. "Bob is beating then Nose by 4."
Ask for action. "Anyone stopping this?"
Count off. "Going once, going twice, dead"

It doesn't take that long, is quite courteous and avoids all arguments.
When declaring, be loud enough everyone can hear. If people aren't paying attention and miss it, THEIR FAULT. No take backs.
Now, if they miss it, and interrupt during the count off asking what's happening, you tell them. But if they don't know, and miss the count, they're screwed.

As for dice and such, there should just be simple guidelines for cheating and consequences. For instance:

"Minor Rule Violation: A player who breaks a rule with a minor effect shall be penalized with immediate death, along with the consequences of whatever they avoided. The body is looted as per usual. Examples include exceeding your hand limit, forgetting to apply a penalty, or using prohibited items.
If you exceed your hand limit, you must discard (and Charity) immediately, followed by death. If you ignore a Run Away or Sex Change penalty, then you must suffer the Bad Stuff, followed by Death."

"Bad Sportsmanship: A player who exhibits bad sportsmanship during a game will be immediately removed from the game, and given a score of zero for the round. The player may continue to play in subsequent rounds of the tourney. Others may loot the body as if the player had just died. Any cards not claimed after the looting go to Charity."

"Cheating: A player caught explicitly cheating is immediately ejected from the tournament without recourse. Others may loot the body as if the player had just died. Any cards not claimed after the looting go to Charity."

"In the absence of a Judge directly witnessing these acts, accusations must be substantiated by a quorum of players at the affected table. A quorum consists of all the players at a table, less one, excepting the accused. Thus at a 6 player table, 4 players must substantiate an accusation."
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