Movies and In Nomine...

[zogo]

Originally Posted by chris the cynic

Serenity has a very powerful message about sin, sin is humanity, and if you take away humanities ability to be wrong you take away humanity itself.

Though I like to think Firefly-Serenity is special I recognize that there must be other things out there where people believe this strongly, wouldn’t that mean that every time a few million people deeply believed in a work of fiction a new set of Ethereals would pop into existence?

First Point...
This could be the start of a Backwards Game. (Backwards is when Hell is the "good guys")

On the Second...
Canonically all kinds of fictional characters would exist as Ethereals. In fact in one Ethereal game that never ended up happening I was going to play Angel, the Vampire with a Soul...

[chris the cynic]

Originally Posted by zogo

First Point...
This could be the start of a Backwards Game. (Backwards is when Hell is the "good guys")

Well that would have to take a very shallow view of the movie. The message of the movie is sort of a middle path of sin, a world without sin is Miranda, but a celebration of sin is what the Reavers are.

On a lower level you would have heaven and hell but the side of the "good guys" wouldn't be a side at all. It would be the middle against both sides. Only something I'd wish on players that like to declare war on the world.

On the Second...
Canonically all kinds of fictional characters would exist as Ethereals. In fact in one Ethereal game that never ended up happening I was going to play Angel, the Vampire with a Soul...

And here I was just saying to someone how I liked the line:
"I'm feeling grief ... I wish to do more violence."

[mondu_the_fat]

Stigmata would make an excellent plot if you're anti-Laurence, and was the second movie I explored for an IN story (the first movie being The Fallen, in which my sister, who doesn't role-play commented, "That was a shedim, wasn't it?")

In Stigmata, there's one of the gospels that was hidden (in real life, many gospels have been removed from today's version of the bible, so this has a grain of truth to it). The thing with this gospel is that it describes how God is to be worshipped -- none of the hierarchal structure of today's Catholic Church. The exact contents is unknown to the general public (Yves knows and most likely keeps it in the reserved list at the request of Laurence).

In an IN capaign, the characters would know nothing of this gospel. Instead, the are asked to investigate the incidence of stigmata that's appearing on a woman (in the movie, she's possesed by the priest who last had the copy of the gospel). The adventure could go from a possible red herring (investigating a possible prophet) to unravelling a conspiracy/coverup that could break the Church's organization.



The Fallen is pretty straight forward. A Shedite is possesing people and doing serial murders with the same MO. In an IN capaign, the Shedite could very well be a Renegade with no Heart (because in the story, the demon can be killed if it doesn't possess something within a few minutes).

[zogo]

Originally Posted by chris the cynic

Well that would have to take a very shallow view of the movie.

I don't think it's that shallow. The reavers aren't sin, Mal is.

Originally Posted by Serenity

MAL:They'll come a day when there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all...

...

MAL: I aim to misbehave

...

OPERATIVE: Do you know what your sin is?
MAL: Hell, I'm a fan of all seven.

In Serenity "sin" being "evil" is an outdated way of looking at the world. The Reavers are one of the two natural consequences of taking away sin, destruction.

[chris the cynic]

Originally Posted by zogo

I don't think it's that shallow.

I'll agree with you on that much, sorry I said that.

-

Mal might be a great representation of sin on one scale, but we really see, in Firefly at least, that he steers clear of most of it. Niska, for example, seems like a far better representation of sin, though all he has to his name is pride (you'd think someone in his position should go with greed.) The crew would rather that kind of person didn’t exist.

I'd have to say that they don't actively support sin and they would probably be against anyone who did. Instead they are simply very opposed to anyone who tries to eliminate sin.

In my mind that would put them between Heaven and Hell unless Hell was tweaked so much it didn't really resemble In Nomine all that much.

[Qoltar]

The headline 'Movies..." intrigued me. Didn't expect to see an interesting debate about the "Firefly"/SERENITY universe.

My feeling is that Captain Malcom Reynolds could represent freedom of choice...or whatever side is in favor of mankinds Free Will . I'm not as well-read on the IN universe as I'd like to be. ...buut that character falls closer to the "Good" side if anything - he just doesn't like to admit it. Does In Nomine have "reluctant heroes"? Mal does listen to a man of God for advice.

- E.W. Charlton

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by Qoltar

Does In Nomine have "reluctant heroes"?

In Nomine has lots of stuff. Humans certainly fit into any mold that humans fit into. Demons with the Selfless Discord (Infernal Player's Guide, and I think it may have gotten a mention in GURPS IN) certainly qualify, the poor things.

[chris the cynic]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

In Nomine has lots of stuff. Humans certainly fit into any mold that humans fit into. Demons with the Selfless Discord (Infernal Player's Guide, and I think it may have gotten a mention in GURPS IN) certainly qualify, the poor things.

Seems to me like the only demons that actually need the discord to have a conscience are the Shedim, the rest don't seem to have anything making them bad it's just that selfishness tends to make one lean in that direction.

-

Anyway, I have a habit of dragging the crew with me everywhere, I mean seriously who can leave River, Mal and the rest on their own forums?

-

So if Mal is on the side of free will which side does that place him on? Certainly the Fall was an expression of free will (if you believe there is such a thing) and Heaven didn't like that all that much, but on the other hand the culture of Hell doesn't seem to be what one would expect from Milton's, "Here at least we shall be free," Lucifer.

In Heaven rules stop you from being free, in Hell lack of rules let other people push you around to the point that you are very much not free. So which side does the free will supporter join?

[zogo]

Originally Posted by chris the cynic

So if Mal is on the side of free will which side does that place him on? Certainly the Fall was an expression of free will (if you believe there is such a thing) and Heaven didn't like that all that much, but on the other hand the culture of Hell doesn't seem to be what one would expect from Milton's, "Here at least we shall be free," Lucifer.

In Heaven rules stop you from being free, in Hell lack of rules let other people push you around to the point that you are very much not free. So which side does the free will supporter join?

I go with Mal on Hell's side if he's on either. Mal's world is one where other people similarly unconstrained by external rules constantly infringe his own freedom.

However really Mal doesn't fit into IN very well, one of the things that defines Mal is that his war is over and he lost, and has to live anyway. IN is a world where the war isn't over...

[alexondria]

Originally Posted by chris the cynic

So if Mal is on the side of free will which side does that place him on? Certainly the Fall was an expression of free will (if you believe there is such a thing) and Heaven didn't like that all that much, but on the other hand the culture of Hell doesn't seem to be what one would expect from Milton's, "Here at least we shall be free," Lucifer.

In Heaven rules stop you from being free, in Hell lack of rules let other people push you around to the point that you are very much not free. So which side does the free will supporter join?

It would depend on how light or dark your In Nomine game is- for example in an extreamly dark game where Heaven wants to make so many rules that their is no free will and Hell want's their to be so few rules that their is only free will for 1 he wouldn't really fit ether side- but in this type of setting I would say that humanity really should have it's own side which is what he would be on, but in a wold where we look at it as- Q. If God is all powerful why did he let the fall happen? A. Because he believes free will is important and if it can't be used to betray you then it isn't really free. I think he would be on Heaven's side w/ out knowing the war existed- If he knew the war existed who knows what side he would be on. But as a genral rule he helped people in need- stole from people that were genraly corrup- Like the incident where he stole the medicine then found out what he had stolen and gave it back, or the fact that it was River that made his life so dangerous yet he didn't kick her out.