03-26-2013, 01:28 AM | #51 | |||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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However that said the brain's x4 multiplier is pretty damn lethal as is. Also your arguing that one inconstancy must remain because otherwise another inconsistency would be thrown up? Quote:
So I'm arguing here not that it's too easy to chop of a leg in abstract, but that its too easy to chop of one in comparison to a head. sorry will answer the rest later on (have to go to work) |
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03-26-2013, 01:51 AM | #52 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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Sorry the rest of your stuff is pretty rules orientated, I'm going to have to wait until I have my books in front of me. |
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03-26-2013, 03:29 AM | #53 | ||||||||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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However, the presumption that a face hit means a neck hit continues to be utterly baffling. Quote:
A wound does not need a high wounding factor to be dire. It needs a high wounding factor (or a knockdown modifier) to be a fast way to incapacitate. Quote:
If there isn't, why do you want more instant HP loss? Quote:
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Many martial arts will cover striking to the head, probably both Face and Skull. 'Striking' and 'stabbing' are not the same word, though. Quote:
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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03-26-2013, 06:02 AM | #54 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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03-26-2013, 07:51 AM | #55 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
There are plenty of accounts of decapitated foes but the vast majority of them occurred after the battle when the victim was defenceless. We need eyewitness accounts of decapitations that occurred during the battle. I've found a handful after hours of searching but I found countless examples of limb amputations during the same search. Add to this all the accounts of bungled beheading executions that occurred even when the victim was restrained. It seems very clear that it is a lot harder to decapitate someone - especially during a battle - than it is to sever an arm or leg.
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Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting. Last edited by DanHoward; 03-26-2013 at 07:59 AM. |
03-26-2013, 12:05 PM | #56 | |||||
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
...The one in the very next paragraph. The paragraph you quoted right after asking this question.
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That's not "moving the goal posts" in any way. Quote:
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Now then, I could have sworn the neck got the same knockdown penalty as the face, but I'll rework the math for it to be correct: (8-point cutting attack) Chance to be unable to act next turn: Leg: 50% Neck: 75% Face: 97.7% Brain: 99.3% Chance to be rendered unconscious or dead immediately: Leg: 1.9% Neck: 51% Face:75% Brain: ~99% And if we want to compare long-term lethality: Leg: 6 injury, HT-5 30-second bleed, risks death in ~20 minutes. Neck: 16 injury, HT-5 30-second bleed, no First Aid possible, risks death in ~2 minutes. Face: 12 injury, HT-2 60-second bleed, risks death in ~11 minutes. Brain: 24 injury, HT-4 30-second bleed, no First Aid possible. 50% chance of being immediately dead or fatally wounded. Next death check in ~3 minutes. Neck fits neatly in between the leg and brain for immediate effects, and is closer to the brain in lethality if you lack magical healing. Paramedics can easily stop the bleeding of the Leg wound (Base professional skill of 12, plus a medical kit (+2 quality) for a final chance of 37.5% per minute to stop bleeding), but the neck wound has probably already suffered a death check before the paramedics are even on scene, much less before any surgery can be done to save them. |
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03-26-2013, 02:56 PM | #57 | ||||||||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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the face iust basically a collection of holes that give access to the skull and neck. and s supporting structure for the organs that fit in those holes. Quote:
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Ok a couple Injuries to the vascular system occur in 25-56% of penetrating neck wounds, and injuries to the carotid and subclavian arteries are the most common cause of mortality. Penetrating neck trauma has been a significant cause of injury and death for centuries. The advent of gunpowder and the subsequent widespread use of firearms have increased the incidence of these injuries and the mortality rate associated with them. Neck trauma with 41% Mortality (78% when GSW) direct comparison The mortality rate was significantly greater in patients with head and neck wounds (N = 271, 40.0%) than in those with injuries to the thorax (N = 163, 24.1%) and abdomen (N = 62, 9.2%; p < 0.01 for both). If you average thorax and abdomen together you get a mortality rate of just under 17%, head and neck is 40% Now these deal in end results, but it's pretty indicative of it being worse. . Quote:
Is you point dependent on your face not being on the front of your head, I hope not? Is it on the side of you head, or on the back? Quote:
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OK. |
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03-26-2013, 03:17 PM | #58 | ||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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16 pt major wound to the neck = HT roll to escape knockdown (50% chance), next round HT to stay concious (50% chance), chance to act next turn = 25%, following turn you have a 50% chance of falling unconscious and a 50% chance of recovering from stun if stunned = 62.5%, obviously multiple round compound. 24 pt major wound to the neck 62.5% chance of dying and then the above Quote:
I'm not denying the neck wound is going to die. Quote:
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Because leaving aside bleeding, I can see no difference between a 8 pt impaling wound to the neck and and to the torso (both -16 hp, no mods for knock-down) only cutting and crushing, has a difference. 8pt cutting being 16 on the neck, and 12 on the torso, but even that has no difference except you'll bleed more and be closer to the -hp threshold |
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03-26-2013, 03:45 PM | #59 | |||||||||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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Your thing about bleeding out in seconds if your carotid artery or something is cut, on the other hand, is not relevant. Because exactly like my earlier 'aorta blown entirely out of your body' scenario, GURPS (quite explicitly) models that as a subset of 'you are dead'. A GURPS wound to the neck or neck arteries which does not cause an immediate failed death check is not representative of a gushing major artery wound nor is it supposed to be. Quote:
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Neck wounds (just neck, not neck arteries) in GURPS are way more deadly than torso (or abdomen) wounds as currently constituted. The only exception to that is when the torso wound is not a torso wound but rather a vitals wound. And if your stats are mostly coming from soldiers wearing body armor (which at least one of your sources appears to be) you're going to see not so much getting shot in the vitals (body armor covers those first and foremost) and quite a bit of cutting shrapnel. Quote:
Which it is not, in terms of GURPS terminology. I responded pointing that out. That is all there was. I really don't know why you said "The face is just the front of the head after all?", since that doesn't seem to address whether or not face-stabbing is a thing, which was what you posted it in reply to. Quote:
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(There are in fact styles in Martial Arts which include face-stabbing as a technique. The ones I recall, however, are battlefield styles which target the face as a way to avoid armor.)
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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03-26-2013, 04:03 PM | #60 | ||||||||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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And anyway is doesn't invalidate my argument, because my argument is not about how difficult it is to sever a leg, it's about how difficult it is to sever a neck. My comparison to the leg was to illustrate an inconsistency not to use it to prove one was right by dint of the other being wrong. Yes you might me right if you say legs are too easily severed, but that's another discussion. Quote:
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Think of it like this we have specific rules for severing legs which require specific rules for the mechanical loss of a leg (your dancing skill takes a hit). We do not have specific rules for severing a head, because we don't have specific rules for the mechanical loss of a leg (appearance drops, and visual penalties). Quote:
But Ok we'll go back to my previous example, a twelve pot sword wound removes both legs automatically, but only has a 50% chance on a 10HT man of immediately killing (and as you say therefore being RAW eligible to be a decapitation). In a way your right about bleeding vs. decapitation rule, but only in that you highlight the inconsistency I mention Quote:
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And if we want to compare long-term lethality:....[/QUOTE] not what I was contesting |
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hit location, hit locations |
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