4th Edition Rate of Fire

[Skarg]

The problem with using averages is when there is DR (and to some extent, blow-through), and some shots will not penetrate, so you won't get the same average result, because it's really about how many rounds penetrate and how much damage they do.

Seems to me like an obvious job for a not-soo-difficult-to-write little computer program or script.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Skarg

The problem with using averages is when there is DR (and to some extent, blow-through), and some shots will not penetrate, so you won't get the same average result, because it's really about how many rounds penetrate and how much damage they do.

Seems to me like an obvious job for a not-soo-difficult-to-write little computer program or script.

Armour as dice works well here I think, it not only tells you quickly weather bullets are in danger of penetrating, but it also cuts down on the number of dice you're rolling if they do penetrate

[AlexanderHowl]

Armor as dice works in Shadowrun, but it is a pain in GURPS because of the conversion and it gets rather monotonous. After all, rolling 1d-2 armor every time you suffer a hit while wearing a leather jacket gets pretty boring, especially if your opponents are punching you for 1d-2 crushing.

[Mathulhu]

I think you're confused about how Armour as Dice functions.

The idea is to decrease the variability of the effect of armour. For example a DR 10 bullet proof vest should always stop a 2d+2 bullet. Armour as Dice convert the DR 10 to DR 3d then the attack is reduced by that value.
So a 2d+2 minus 3d is 2-d and that goes to 0.
Now a 4d attack striking the same 3d armour would be reduced, 4d-3d = 1d so 1d6 would be rolled and that would be the penetrating damage.

The utility is that each time you reduce the damage dice by 2 you can also reduce the armour by 7. This is particularly useful when dealing with very large values of DR. This way you can maintain some variability whilst reducing the number of dice rolled.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Armor as dice works in Shadowrun, but it is a pain in GURPS because of the conversion and it gets rather monotonous. After all, rolling 1d-2 armor every time you suffer a hit while wearing a leather jacket gets pretty boring, especially if your opponents are punching you for 1d-2 crushing.

I don't know what that is, but that isn't what they are talking about. See "Armor Revisted" in Pyramid #3/34: Alternate GURPS. Using those rules you only roll when there is any penetrating damage, and you still roll for damage normally; you don't roll anything for armor.

[Skarg]

In neither of those above ideas for "armor as dice" would they give the same results of rolling for each hit. If the intention of the rule is that it is thought more realistic, then ok, but neither system works to produce the same results as you'd get from rolling for each hit (because it's not a flat reduction that applies to the total damage over multiple hits. e.g. 2d+2 can easily penetrate DR 10, and it reduces total damage compared to an unarmored target by less than 10 on the hits that roll under 10 per hit).

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Skarg

In neither of those above ideas for "armor as dice" would they give the same results of rolling for each hit. If the intention of the rule is that it is thought more realistic, then ok, but neither system works to produce the same results as you'd get from rolling for each hit (because it's not a flat reduction that applies to the total damage over multiple hits. e.g. 2d+2 can easily penetrate DR 10, and it reduces total damage compared to an unarmored target by less than 10 on the hits that roll under 10 per hit).

That's the point. Shot placement doesn't change penetration. Rolling random damage makes sense because there are way too many variables in how a round interacts with the target's organs, but there aren't many variables in how it interacts with body armor.

[ed_209a]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

That's the point. Shot placement doesn't change penetration. Rolling random damage makes sense because there are way too many variables in how a round interacts with the target's organs, but there aren't many variables in how it interacts with body armor.

I am a big fan of armor-as-dice in general. I will definitely use it in the next GURPS game I run.

That said, in RL, angle of impact will make a difference how protective an armor plate or panel is. Is that effect below game resolution? Is hitting someone's armor at too steep an angle just considered a miss?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ed_209a

I am a big fan of armor-as-dice in general. I will definitely use it in the next GURPS game I run.

That said, in RL, angle of impact will make a difference how protective an armor plate or panel is. Is that effect below game resolution? Is hitting someone's armor at too steep an angle just considered a miss?

"Armor Revisted" does somewhat address this.

[Thorbjørn]

Can Recoil be 0?
Say for laser rifles.
Or is 1 the lowest Recoil?
- I do see problem with the math of dividing MoS with 0.
Can Recoil be between 0 and 1?

My goal here is to come up with a solution for WH40k weaponry, especially how the Imperial Guards lasgun goes up against the power armour of a space marine. My plan is to have the lasgun deal low damage per shot, but be able to ramp that up due to high RoF and low or no recoil.
I'm also looking into the possibility of the multiple shots hitting in a single salvo from a high RoF las-weapon, can overcome the high DR of the power armour and the like.