Job roll, wealth level and cost of living: Great Merchant's case

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I think there's an ambiguity here due to two job income formats coexisting:

• One is that the TL's standard income is multiplied by the wealth multiplier, which means that yes you do get paid more for 'being' Wealthy (in this case that means having spent points on Wealth). See the uFAQ for Krommquotes on what the Wealth advantage represents and includes - how much cash you have on hand is just a small part of it.
• The other is the table of jobs with already pre-calculated incomes.

It's been a while since I read Banestorm and I don't remember whether it sticks to the latter, but I suspect it does.

The Banestorm jobs are pre-calculated. Specifically, the Master Merchant job on page 211 has a Monthly Pay of $200 × prerequisite skill, adjusted for margin of success or failure (+10% per point). The job has a minimum Merchant prerequisite skill of 16. So the least skilled Master Merchant, rolling an 11 on his job roll, will earn $200 × 16 × 1.5 = $4,800. The job is listed as having a wealth level of Wealthy and that it supports Status 1.

You don't get paid more or less for being wealthy or poor; you get paid more or less for having a job of a higher or lower wealth level. Most of the time you have a job with a wealth level equal to your own, but that's not an absolute requirement.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

But you can convert existing jobs to higher level jobs through multiplying the amount of money earned. For example, a Great Merchant is a Filthy Rich job that requires Merchant-20 and pays 20x as much as a Master Merchant. You see this in real life with corporate CEO pay, which can vary from $250,000 to $25,000,000.

You can do this if you want, but that's not an automatic mechanical process of the rules. You're really designing a new job. Why does Great Merchant require the incredible skill Merchant-20? Maybe 16 is high enough, and now other prerequisites come into play, like hereditary Status or additional skills. I'm not even clear what a "Great Merchant" is, since the only place that term appears is on the Hazi and Wazifi Status table.

[Sorenant]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Administrative Rank is probably a good start, yes. A great merchant is probably not just handling their own caravan with a few teamsters and guards (Administrative Rank 1 or 2), they're almost certainly managing several caravans or other trading concerns (Administrative Rank 3) or even one more tier up, managing people who are in turn managing several things (Rank 4 or 5). Even Rank 1-4 boosts the Merchant's Status by 1 for free, and if they hit 5, it's 2.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In the case of a Grand Merchant, two levels of his status would come from Administrative Rank, but I doubt that anyone without Filthy Rich would be considered accomplished enough to by his peers to be given that title. In effect, his peers pay for his higher standard of living because he uses his influence and wealth to make their lives eaiser.

I think I'm coming to a better understanding.

• The status table (p.121) mentions "Shopkeepers" having Status 1
• Later (p.131) the book mention the title held by people with specific Administrative Ranks:
  

  Bey (Administrative Rank 6), Emir (Rank 5), Atabeg (Rank 4), Khedive (Rank 3), Ra’is (Rank 2)

  Emir or Atabeg seems a little too high of a tile for a "mere" merchant to own but Rais to Atabeg seems reasonable enough, grating extra Status (coincidentally, according to wiki: Rais is also used similarly to the English term "old money")
• Finally the iconic Wealth of the character will grant him another level of Status.

It seems to sum up nicely to the Great Merchant's Status 3. What it all means in fluff is debatable but I think it makes sense to think as these Merchants being individuals attending to the expensive needs and wants of the actual nobility and/or overseeing the logistics of the nation. Considering to what has been stated by the Job Table so far:

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

It's a separate job not statted up in the book. Write up a new job. Make Status 3 a prerequisite. Otherwise, I'm not sure of the job requirements of a Hazi or Wazifi Great Merchant.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

But you can convert existing jobs to higher level jobs through multiplying the amount of money earned. For example, a Great Merchant is a Filthy Rich job that requires Merchant-20 and pays 20x as much as a Master Merchant. You see this in real life with corporate CEO pay, which can vary from $250,000 to $25,000,000.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

The other is the table of jobs with already pre-calculated incomes.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

The Banestorm jobs are pre-calculated. Specifically, the Master Merchant job on page 211 has a Monthly Pay of $200 × prerequisite skill, adjusted for margin of success or failure (+10% per point). The job has a minimum Merchant prerequisite skill of 16. So the least skilled Master Merchant, rolling an 11 on his job roll, will earn $200 × 16 × 1.5 = $4,800. The job is listed as having a wealth level of Wealthy and that it supports Status 1.

I think I'm not too far from the truth when I make the following job:

Great Merchant
Prerequisite: Merchant at 16+, Administrative Rank 2+, Status 1+.
Job Roll: Prerequisite skill. On critical failure, lose three month's income.
Monthly Pay: $800×prerequisite skill. Adjusted for margin of success or failure.
Wealth Level: Very Wealthy. Supports Status 3.

$800 is $50 times 16 (4/5 of the wealth multiplier 20) and can earn on average (roll 11) $800×16×1.5=$19,200 and a minimum (roll 16) of $12,800 which means he can safely live his Status 3 life unless he really messes up (ie fail a roll).

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I'd generally allow this, yes. Remember, if you take the 80%/20% split for a settled lifestyle, the non-adventuring possessions part of things doesn't have to exactly equal 80% of your starting wealth, and in fact, it can be worth significantly more - the limitations is that you can't take most of it on adventures with you, it's just background, and if you do choose to liquidate it all for cash, it will never come out to more than that 80% of starting wealth, due to various reasons. So the heir can enjoy his family's mansions and drink their booze and whatnot. I'd probably use his effective Wealth level to describe how much the family was willing to put up with him doing so. So, if as above, he's functioning at Comfortable Wealth, then I'd say he can throw a party for a few friends every week, eat full, good meals every day courtesy of the kitchens, and sleep in a good bed with fine linens. But if he tries to hold a party with over 50 people every night, feast on peacock tongue and pearls dissolved in vinegar every night, and sleep in a different master bedroom with silk sheets every night, the family will probably cut him off, or at least discipline him.

Great! That's what I was hoping for.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

That's how I'd do it, yeah. In general, limitations like Heir will generally give access to half the point value of the trait until it "comes due", so if the family overall is Filthy Rich (30 points), you could treat the heir with Filthy Rich (Heir, -50%) as functioning as Comfortable wealth (half of Filthy Rich is 15 points, and you round down to 10 points for Comfortable).

Actually, half of Filthy Rich is 25 points. Now, is it thinking about it only on point terms correct? I admit it's nice to curb abuses but RAW seems to simply halve you starting wealth bonus:

For instance, if you stood to inherit +2 to Status [10] and Comfortable wealth [10], Heir would cost 10 points, and give +1 to Status and a 50% bonus to starting wealth.

Is there any other mention of the Heir advantage across the books and pyramids so we can verify?

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Sorenant

Great Merchant
Prerequisite: Merchant at 16+, Administrative Rank 2+, Status 1+.

That should probably be Merchant Rank, not Administrative Rank. I'm pretty sure the governments of al-Haz and al-Wazif are not run by merchants.

[Sorenant]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

That should probably be Merchant Rank, not Administrative Rank. I'm pretty sure the governments of al-Haz and al-Wazif are not run by merchants.

I've searched the book and it seems there's no mention of Merchant Rank in it but the Merchant template has an optional Administrative Rank advantage, so I just went with what the book seems to indicate.

Edit: Also there's this passage that maybe can mean wealthy merchants can get into politics?

Elsewhere in society, wealth is respected as a sign of Allah’s favor, and the wealthy can advance one or two levels in Status if they cultivate the right contacts and image (p.123)

[sir_pudding]

If using the rules in GURPS Social Engineering some form of Guild Rank might be more appropriate if it represents position in a merchant's organization.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Sorenant

I've searched the book and it seems there's no mention of Merchant Rank in it but the Merchant template has an optional Administrative Rank advantage, so I just went with what the book seems to indicate.

Basic Set, p. 30. I can't explain why Administrative Rank is in the merchant template. Maybe the author was thinking of the administration of mercantile enterprise?

It's no big deal; the point cost is the same.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Basic Set, p. 30. I can't explain why Administrative Rank is in the merchant template. Maybe the author was thinking of the administration of mercantile enterprise?

I'm pretty sure that's the case, yeah. Administrative Rank doesn't mean here "rank in a government", it means "rank in a merchant organization".

Of course, with the more detailed rules in Social Engineering about pricing Rank, Merchant Rank would cost less per level, but not give Status bonuses at all, but Banestorm was written long before those came out, so I imagine Phil Masters made do with the rules he'd got. :-)

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Don't multiply pay by Wealth level. You don't get paid more for being wealthy.

The Great Merchant listed on the Hazi and Wazifi Status table is not the same thing as the Master Merchant job, which is listed as supporting Status 1. Your master merchant made $4,800 this month. This could support a Status 2 character, and we do see the job listed as Wealthy level.

Unless this is an error, it means that a master merchant makes a lot more money than his Status would suggest: he has lots of assets, but doesn't spend them on a Status 2 lifestyle. I'm not sure why that would be.

Merchants invest in money, nobles invest in propaganda. A brocade robe could be a vanity to a merchant and a necessity to a noble.

[Sorenant]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Basic Set, p. 30. I can't explain why Administrative Rank is in the merchant template. Maybe the author was thinking of the administration of mercantile enterprise?

It's no big deal; the point cost is the same.

[QUOTE=Kelly Pedersen;2139056]I'm pretty sure that's the case, yeah. Administrative Rank doesn't mean here "rank in a government", it means "rank in a merchant organization". [/QUOTe

Sorry, meant I couldn't find mention of Merchant Rank in the Banestorm book. Given Merchant's Guild is mentioned on p.50, I just accepted it by thinking these guilds are not so formaly structured yet to have ranks of it's own.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Of course, with the more detailed rules in Social Engineering about pricing Rank, Merchant Rank would cost less per level, but not give Status bonuses at all, but Banestorm was written long before those came out, so I imagine Phil Masters made do with the rules he'd got. :-)

Unfortunately I don't have Social Engineering yet. On the flip side it may help me figure out what the writers were thinking.

By the way found a confirmation that any reasonably successful merchant has Status 1 in Muslim nations and that they're well accepted there because the Prophet was also a merchant (p.40).