GURPS After the End 1: Wastelanders

[PK]

(Minuteman37, I moved your question about the "Post-Apocalyptic Guns" article to the right thread.)

[Minuteman37]

Oh that's ok, I forget that pyramid got it's one thread. Lol

[chandley]

One warning I feel I should pass on, as I was putting together some loadouts: The "High-tech Low-tech" box in High Tech (p.65) is going to really munge things. 2x DR for the same cost and weight as a TL 5 innovation makes primitive armor extremely tough, even with the 2x cost of TL 5 stuff in AtE. Especially since it is compatible with the Cheap option (which represents badly made, poorly fitting armor, not cheap material).

TL 5 Cheap Steel Mail Hauberk is DR 7/3* and $172.
TL 5 Cheap Steel Light Scale: DR 5 and $120
TL 5 Cheap Steel Scale: DR 7 and $336.

All three of those are pretty decent starter armor, well within the $500 starting budget.

Now, from one point of view, this is good, since you are putting scale armor up against TL 5 or 6 firearms (never mind the occasional laser rifle). But from the other point of view, it makes one wonder why TL 3/4 metal armor would be around at all, and is flat out weird when compared to armor in High Tech.

Now, rebuilding stuff using Mr. Pulver's two Pyramid articles is probably my solution. Im curious what other solutions might exist besides the obvious "dont use that rule from High Tech". Maybe it is actually as simple as "dont bother using the High Tech armor", instead using TL 5 steel versions of Low-tech or Basic Set armor and whatever Ultratech you find.

Loadouts will be interesting for AtE. Ive found a few High-Tech and Ultratech items that are total replacements for basic kit from Low-Tech/Characters (basically, using DF Loadouts as a starting point). For example, a Bulky, Fragile Penlight (TL9) is $28.8 and a really excellent buy (its a great light, lasts forever, and can be used as a blinding weapon). A Bulky Emergency Blanket (TL7) is $20 and 0.375 lbs, same cost and much lighter than a TL 0 Blanket normally in a minimal kit.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by chandley

... a Bulky, Fragile Penlight (TL9) is $28.8 and a really excellent buy (its a great light, lasts forever....

Those two things... they do not go together...


But yeah, TL 5ing low-tech gear and using High Tech is a good fit.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Those two things... they do not go together...


But yeah, TL 5ing low-tech gear and using High Tech is a good fit.

"Lasts forever" actually referred to how long it produces light, and was a bit of hyperbole. 24 hours of light for 2A cells isnt bad. An electronics roll to hook up a C cell makes it last for 50 days. Thats what I meant by "forever" :)

[chandley]

Oooh, another book for the AtE series: AtE Dirty Tech. What can you make out of junk. You got the High Tech entries of course (newspaper/phone book armor, pastic bucket armor, zip-gun). But man, we could use more.

For example, some research shows that steel-belted radials are about DR 10 per .25 inch thickness. In David Pulver's armor system, they would have a stat line of:

TL  Material                       WM    Cost  DR/inch  Max DR  Notes           Construction
6   Steel-belted Radials	   0.2	 $0.00	  40	  20	C, F, S*	segmented plate, scale, solid

So many tires lying around, you should be able to get the material for free with a scavenging roll. Then its an Armoury (Body Armor) roll at +3 and 3 hours work per 100% coverage to get steel belted radial lorica segmentata at DR 10, semi-ablative, combustible. 20.3 lbs for torso, groin coverage. Maybe slap it with -1 DR without a really good roll on your Armoury skill check, as it will come out "Cheap".

Stuff like that. Polished soda can bottom firestarter, wooden bicycles, just whatever weird kit-bashed stuff you could think of. Give the Gadgeteer some ideas basically.

[acrosome]

Oh, that's nothing. Check out the Gingery books, aka Build Your Own Metal-Working Shop From Scrap. They start with making a crucible to melt and cast scrap aluminum, after which you make a metal lathe, and from there you keep bootstrapping yourself to a drill press and milling machine, etc. At that point almost anything is possible with some decent metal stock.

This is one reason I disagree with a default TL of 4. I think 5 would be better.

[PK]

Originally Posted by acrosome

This is one reason I disagree with a default TL of 4. I think 5 would be better.

Except that I chose the multipliers that I did because it makes sense that TL5 is the level that most stable, relatively self-sufficient settlements can support.

They can. But the thing is, the rest of the wasteland doesn't have the luxury of being able to "bootstrap" themselves up there. The gangs, the stragglers, the refugees, the dregs -- they're all getting by with nothing more than hand tools and what they can scrounge up. No lathes, no drill presses, none of that.

And that's why TL5 gets the x2. Not because no one's at TL5 or because no one's making TL5 stuff! But because when it comes to freshly made gear, TL5 is the first step on the "premium" stairway for most of the wasteland. It's the stuff that you have to live in a settlement (or equivalent) to crank out. And the people in those settlements (A) know that it's desired and (B) have a lot more "overhead" just to keep things running -- so they trade up.

That x2 is really a modest jump, and that's because it's not anything special or rare, it's just a little bit better than what you can make when you're on the road or otherwise without a support structure of any kind (like a settlement). It's the next jump, to x4 at TL6, that things start getting pretty expensive, and that was intentional.

[scc]

Originally Posted by PK

Except that I chose the multipliers that I did because it makes sense that TL5 is the level that most stable, relatively self-sufficient settlements can support.

They can. But the thing is, the rest of the wasteland doesn't have the luxury of being able to "bootstrap" themselves up there. The gangs, the stragglers, the refugees, the dregs -- they're all getting by with nothing more than hand tools and what they can scrounge up. No lathes, no drill presses, none of that.

And that's why TL5 gets the x2. Not because no one's at TL5 or because no one's making TL5 stuff! But because when it comes to freshly made gear, TL5 is the first step on the "premium" stairway for most of the wasteland. It's the stuff that you have to live in a settlement (or equivalent) to crank out. And the people in those settlements (A) know that it's desired and (B) have a lot more "overhead" just to keep things running -- so they trade up.

That x2 is really a modest jump, and that's because it's not anything special or rare, it's just a little bit better than what you can make when you're on the road or otherwise without a support structure of any kind (like a settlement). It's the next jump, to x4 at TL6, that things start getting pretty expensive, and that was intentional.

All quite likely true, but the further you from the End the more likely that the situation has stabilized. More then a few years and refugees, migrants and gangs will be in relatively short supply, along with things to find.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by scc

All quite likely true, but the further you from the End the more likely that the situation has stabilized. More then a few years and refugees, migrants and gangs will be in relatively short supply, along with things to find.

Dude: This is a thread about postapocalyptic roleplaying in the wasteland. The first book opens with quotes from Borderlands 2 and Mad Max: Fury Road. While you can do a rational version, its mostly about the rule of cool. If people who don't need to hide their weapons are fighting with chains and nailboards instead of spears and axes, practicality has left the building pursued by scabby, glowing rats.

If this were a game about the 17th century, its about the poor sods in Huronia or Muscovy or Hungary or Manchuria who are trying to survive plagues and wandering armies and desperate neighbours and their capital burning to the ground for no particular reason, not about Dutch merchants complaining that they only made 13.8% profit this year and can't get that really nice tulip which they wanted.