Bleeding Attack

[rnadams2]

I want to create an attack that causes initial bleeding without a HT check (on creatures that bleed, of course). It's essentially a spell that causes "magical lacerations," single die of malediction damage. Would you characterize this as a cosmic enhancement? If so, what do you think would be an appropriate modifier? Does +100% for attack with a lingering special effect seem to cover it?

[Refplace]

Cyclic seems the way to go here.
Lingering Attack is under Cosmic for+100% but its not what your describing.

[rnadams2]

Oh, heck yeah, completely passed that over. Thanks!

[Varyon]

So, this is a cutting attack, doing normal cutting damage, but as an additional effect, the first HT roll to avoid bleeding is waived, for automatic damage. Is that correct? If so, I'd build it as a 1d+1 cut attack, with the +1 having a Limitation to represent it a) only works against targets who bleed (use the Blood Agent Limitation), b) is delayed by a minute, and c) during that minute sufficient bandaging can prevent the damage (I'd lump b and c into -10% or so, personally).

If instead you want something that causes damage over time, with bleeding as a special effect (that is, "bleeding" effects in most computer games), I'd suggest just using Cyclic, with Blood Agent as above.

[rnadams2]

Originally Posted by Varyon

So, this is a cutting attack, doing normal cutting damage, but as an additional effect, the first HT roll to avoid bleeding is waived, for automatic damage. Is that correct? If so, I'd build it as a 1d+1 cut attack, with the +1 having a Limitation to represent it a) only works against targets who bleed (use the Blood Agent Limitation), b) is delayed by a minute, and c) during that minute sufficient bandaging can prevent the damage (I'd lump b and c into -10% or so, personally).

If instead you want something that causes damage over time, with bleeding as a special effect (that is, "bleeding" effects in most computer games), I'd suggest just using Cyclic, with Blood Agent as above.

As it's a magical effect--and, incidentally, modeled after a bleeding effect in a computer game as well--I'm inclined to lean toward using Cyclic. Also, I'm sketchy on the cutting attack, as I envision mostly shallow lacerations rather than deep-cutting, it-might-lop-your-arm-off damage.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by rnadams2

As it's a magical effect--and, incidentally, modeled after a bleeding effect in a computer game as well--I'm inclined to lean toward using Cyclic. Also, I'm sketchy on the cutting attack, as I envision mostly shallow lacerations rather than deep-cutting, it-might-lop-your-arm-off damage.

You get initial damage with a Cyclic attack anyway. So, you can make this a 1-point Cutting attack with whatever Cyclic you feel like paying for.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by rnadams2

I want to create an attack that causes initial bleeding without a HT check (on creatures that bleed, of course). It's essentially a spell that causes "magical lacerations," single die of malediction damage. Would you characterize this as a cosmic enhancement? If so, what do you think would be an appropriate modifier? Does +100% for attack with a lingering special effect seem to cover it?

Lingering effect should definitely cover this - I might even be willing to call it +50% unless the bleeding cannot be stopped by normal means - then definitely +100%. Another thing you might consider is that if the campaign world doesn't Bleeding normally add something like a Symptom or a linked Affliction with a "Rules Inclusion" perk - in this case the Bleeding rules. Optionally, add Hemophilia or consider Side Effect (Hemophilia) along with Extended Duration to make the bleeding last longer. So something like "Lacerate" might look like

Cutting Attack (Cosmic, Lingering Effect, Instantaneous Bleeding, +50%; Magical, -10%; Malediction 1, +100%) [16.8/die]

or

Cutting Attack (Cosmic, Lingering Effect, Continuous Bleeding, +100%; Magical, -10%; Malediction 1, +100%) [20.3/die]

And so on. Lots of ways to do this - I'd personally use Cutting Attack with a linked follow-up Affliction or perhaps as Symptoms.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by rnadams2

As it's a magical effect--and, incidentally, modeled after a bleeding effect in a computer game as well--I'm inclined to lean toward using Cyclic. Also, I'm sketchy on the cutting attack, as I envision mostly shallow lacerations rather than deep-cutting, it-might-lop-your-arm-off damage.

Sounds like Cyclic is the way to go here. As for damage, you could possibly get away with anything you'd like, but if I were you I'd either go with Cutting or one of the Piercing classes (as those cause bleeding to start with). IIRC, Maledictions bypass DR, so that's not important, but depending on your campaign setting there may be characters/creatures who have special resistance/vulnerability to certain types of damage, in which case you'll want to stick with Cutting. Crippling rather than lopping off an arm would be a special effect, but that doesn't really matter with a Malediction, which just damages the whole body (or optionally just the torso) rather than specific hit locations. If you really want to avoid the bonus damage of Cutting you'll want to either go with pi or do a tiny houserule to allow for cut- (which is Cutting damage that only gets a x1 WM, rather than a x1.5; price it the same as pi). An appropriate power up for this attack would be Selective Area, allowing you to target specific hit locations for crippling limbs or getting extra damage by targeting the Neck, Veins and Arteries, or Skull. If the damage is meant to only be due to bleeding, you'll want the entire thing to have Blood Agent*, and possibly a Delay**. If the initial cutting should also do damage to targets without blood, only apply Blood Agent to Cyclic (interestingly, as Cyclic can easily get to or above +100%, using Limiting Enhancements this way can result in this version of the trait costing less than the one that doesn't work at all if the foe lacks blood).

*I think you normally can't stack Blood Agent and Malediction, as both are "penetration modifiers." In this case, however, Blood Agent is more "Target must have blood," which is an Accessibility probably worth around -20% or so (half the discount of normal Blood Agent).

**A fixed Delay, appropriate here, is a +0% Enhancement, but you could justify making it a small Limitation, as it means you don't incapacitate your target as quickly in combat and they might have a chance - through quick bandaging - to avoid the damage outright. This drawback is usually offset by effects with Delay being subtle until they kick in, which isn't the case here.