Reinventing the Vampire

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

Good choice of words. The thing about 'seductive' is that it is in origin a negative descriptor, to be 'seduced' was seen as a bad thing. It implies lies, deception, betrayal, illicitness.

The modern 'romantic' vampire is simply that same concept, only spun as 'let's pretend the illusion was reality' and make the vampire a convenient prop for immortality/eternal youth fantasies. The romance-novel vampire draws on the same current cultural tropes as transhumanist fantasy.

(Note that that the romance-novel vampire usually doesn't fear sacred symbols, garlic, etc. Sometimes sunlight is feared (but also note that this is Hollywood, Dracula originally did not fear the sun, it merely reduced his power, it didn't harm him). The key is to make the vampire an alternative lifestyle for use in formula romance.

Which isn't to say that this concept can't be respun for horroric resonance. A naive youth who grew up on goth and vampire romances might well be usefully vulnerable to a monster than knew how to prey on that naivete.

A vampire that could read Anne Rice and White Wolf games and could pass for a Goth would be well disguised. "Hey, Bill thinks Aton is really a Vampire because he fell for that hokey mirror trick! Lamebrain, Aton isn't even his real name! "

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

A vampire that could read Anne Rice and White Wolf games and could pass for a Goth would be well disguised. "Hey, Bill thinks Aton is really a Vampire because he fell for that hokey mirror trick! Lamebrain, Aton isn't even his real name! "

In Jim Butcher's Dresden Files series, one breed of 'vampire' (actually not true vampires, but psychic predators) feed through lust (or some of them do), and in fact have infiltrated the organizations that shape popular culture, like Hollywood, publishing houses, etc, and deliberately shape public culture and perceptions to make people more vulnerable to them. They run a lot of porn companies, but they also work more subtly through other outlets like romance novels and 'conventional' movies, too.

If there were large numbers of vampires and they had the right kind of organization (or if some demonic power was behind them), I could imagine the whole Anne Rice/Twilight/etc phenomenon to be a massive misdirection and come on deliberately run from the shadows.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

If there were large numbers of vampires and they had the right kind of organization (or if some demonic power was behind them), I could imagine the whole Anne Rice/Twilight/etc phenomenon to be a massive misdirection and come on deliberately run from the shadows.

How far back would it go, historically? Some people read Bram Stoker's Dracula as playing very much on Victorian attitudes to libido on chastity, but I don't see it as very much of a come-on. Nosferatu makes the vampire most unappealing. Bela Lugosi begins to make him elegant. When did vampires start getting portrayed as erotically appealing, as desirable, as enviable? Was it Interview with the Vampire?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Brett

How far back would it go, historically?

The term 'vamp' to refer to a seductive woman dates back to 1905-1910.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Brett

How far back would it go, historically? Some people read Bram Stoker's Dracula as playing very much on Victorian attitudes to libido on chastity, but I don't see it as very much of a come-on.?

Maybe you need to re-read it, concentrating on the scene where the brides of Dracula nearly kill Jonathan Harker. But Carmilla came first and the sexual element of her pursuit of the heroine is not especially subtle.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10007

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmilla

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Maybe you need to re-read it,

Quite likely; it has been thirty years.

concentrating on the scene where the brides of Dracula nearly kill Jonathan Harker.

That there are erotic elements I don't doubt. I just wonder whether the total effect reads like a vampires' attempt to propagandise their attractiveness and enviability.

But Carmilla came first and the sexual element of her pursuit of the heroine is not especially subtle.

25 years before Stoker. That's a respectable antiquity.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Brett

25 years before Stoker. That's a respectable antiquity.

Carmilla also answers the question of whether lesbianism was known in the 1920s.

[David Johnston2]

Mind you Carmilla's state isn't enviable by any means. "Vampire" as straight out source of superpowers started with Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's Hotel Transylvania, although Dark Shadows played a role in getting the vampire there.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Brett

How far back would it go, historically? Some people read Bram Stoker's Dracula as playing very much on Victorian attitudes to libido on chastity, but I don't see it as very much of a come-on. Nosferatu makes the vampire most unappealing. Bela Lugosi begins to make him elegant. When did vampires start getting portrayed as erotically appealing, as desirable, as enviable? Was it Interview with the Vampire?

In the 1830's in Germany there was a Singing Vampire. The Goth rocker of his day I suppose. But I see Vamps as lone preditors unable to work together. I was imagining a Vamp with a sense of humor who hides out in a group were minor slips to his human disguise are counted as cool pranks.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Carmilla also answers the question of whether lesbianism was known in the 1920s.

Carmilla was printed in 1872. Le Fanu is well worth reading. You might enjoy him. Just reading Camilla with open eyes could suggest new ways to link Lovecraft and Vampires.