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Old 09-17-2018, 07:17 AM   #11
Terquem
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Idaho Falls
Default Re: CW as a roleplaying game?

I always sort of liked the rules found in Autoduel Champions
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Old 09-17-2018, 07:44 AM   #12
Blue Ghost
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spinward Marches
Default Re: CW as a roleplaying game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by syncrogt1 View Post
It's tough to trust anyone after it getting violated like that.

Your chassis/crossbow thing sounds awesome, we should do a PBEM/other game, i would love to participate.
I want to add here, if you were growing up or coming of age in the 70s or 80s, then you saw the computer revolution dawning. And I bring that up because Car Wars has always had a kind of tech edge to it, and a lot of tech people young and old, were or are gamers.

And with all of the pocket or zip lock baggy games coming out at that time, and computers making their way into homes with D&D knockoffs like Ultima, to me it seemed like it would only be a matter of weeks or months before CW's RPing aspects and a few computer play aides would be in the offing.

But here we are in 2018 … I'm not trying to be intentionally facetious, but it seemed like what I described in my concepts would have been created eons ago. But, they weren't, which is cool, because we can talk about stuff like that here on this forum.

Recently I spent over ten years of my life trying to get my concepts to market, but there was a lot of family opposition to my hobbies, and that doesn't include my pre-teen and high school years in the 80s when I drafted up concepts for other games.

I bring this up because CW is not just a sorta scifi alt-universe dystopic combat sim game, but like a lot of good games it has the potential to really be a narrative story vehicle, and that's why I mentioned some of the stuff I did, and why I'm posting on this thread.

From my perspective, after we would finish an arena match, I felt like there was more to come for the experience that none of my gaming groups ever explored. And by that I mean RPing without a lot of stats, skills, busy character sheet with a laundry list of who knows what else.

It's like we'd play an arena duel, and then just as things were going to get interesting story wise, it was over.

My true love is Traveller, and SFB with it's classic Kirk and Spock era Trek flavor, but Car Wars was such a professionally presented and well crafted game when I first got into it back in 80 or 81, that it's stuck with me, and it's always struck me as untapped regardless of all of the supps that have been published for it.

Sorry for the passionate rant.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:50 AM   #13
syncrogt1
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Default Re: CW as a roleplaying game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
....CW is not just a sorta scifi alt-universe dystopic combat sim game, but like a lot of good games it has the potential to really be a narrative story vehicle, and that's why I mentioned some of the stuff I did, and why I'm posting on this thread.

From my perspective, after we would finish an arena match, I felt like there was more to come for the experience that none of my gaming groups ever explored. And by that I mean RPing without a lot of stats, skills, busy character sheet with a laundry list of who knows what else.

It's like we'd play an arena duel, and then just as things were going to get interesting story wise, it was over.... and it's always struck me as untapped regardless of all of the supps that have been published for it.
Edited your comment for my use. I totally feel the same way, and love the mad max type films because they remind me that there is so much story available to explain why, and what Max went through that got him to where he is now. CW did miss that IMO, so as a kid I added it as best I could. Later on, D&D 3.5E filled some of that need for RP, but I wish CW had done it.

If it's not too personal, why would your family oppose your interest?
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:38 PM   #14
Blue Ghost
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Default Re: CW as a roleplaying game?

Well, you should PM me so I can give you a detailed answer if you want. Suffice it to say my biological mother is very catholic and the D&D scare/murders that took place way back in the mid to late 70s (77? I can't remember) threw a scare into the family. And the effort to steer me away from gaming was massive, but again, I won't put it down here because it might violate some aspect of forum policy.

And yeah, the Mad Max films (which I later saw on HBO and missed in the theatre) added to that whole atmosphere. For me Car Wars could include that low tech world, but also had a lot of high tech aspects to it … like rebuilt America had a Roman Empire slant to it with televised blood sports. There was story material there. You wanted to go in and explore and see what it was all about--adventure in it.

Regrettably, unknown to me, I had a lot of opposition to my gaming hobby, which included Car Wars. I could only indulge in things like Car Wars with other players under controlled circumstances (which I did not know at the time).

There's more to the story, but that's kind of it in a nutshell. Oh well. Whatever.

Last edited by Blue Ghost; 09-17-2018 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:52 PM   #15
baakyocalder
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sacramento metro, California
Default Re: CW as a roleplaying game?

I never got to a huge roleplay level with Car Wars when I began regularly playing it starting in about 1987 after one of my fellow Boy Scouts introduced it to me; I had other games such as the FASA version of Star Trek and AD&D and Tunnels & Trolls and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness.

However, my first character became part of the 'Anti-Mafia Society' based on my friend having a fun little scenario called 'Mafia Bar Raids' where you kicked in the door, threw in a concussion or knockout grenade and basically were Frank Castle. That evolved into an organization that gave the PCs an opportunity to learn any of the vehicle skills they wanted.

So, I got to make jets and boats and trikes and cars and in one scenario, my brother ran the 'Massacre At Midville' tank from a magazine article against the other guys in our Boy Scout Troop.

I had a whole universe of characters and even movies for them ala action heroes.

The rise of computer games, plus more of a focus on character immersion, made it so I don't play Car Wars anymore. However, I've got the Car Wars Classic Box in storage and if I found players with a little patience, I could dust it off and have a game going again.

And the friend who taught me Car Wars raved about GURPS. I never played GURPS with him, but after picking up GURPS in the summer of 1990, I have had many fun GURPS games. In some of them, well autoduellists show up. . .
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Waiting For: Schedule Sanity to Play Car Wars and my Fnordcon special alt Car Wars cards!
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:19 AM   #16
owenmp
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA, USA
Default Re: CW as a roleplaying game?

ADQ Vol. 4, No. 4 had the original version of "Corporate Car Wars." The rules were reprinted in L'Outrance that had additional rules for continuing campaigns.

Scott Haring wrote in a GURPS Autoduel First Edition Designer's Notes article in ADQ an effective way to play GURPS Autoduel First Edition was to use Car Wars for vehicular combat then switch to GURPS for character interactions.

GURPS Autoduel Second Edition requires GURPS Vehicles Second Edition. Vehicular combat using GURPS Vehicles Second Edition is very different from the rules used in Car Wars or GURPS Autoduel First Edition.

Car Wars Compendium 2.5 has a Characters chapter with a large list of skills, for combat and non-combat uses.

Tony Kontes ran post-apocalyptic campaigns using Car Wars for many years and posted many of those rules on his blog.

Boneheadz Command Center
http://boneheadzcommand.blogspot.com


There are some roleplaying rules on the NOVA Web site. Look in the NOVA Supplements section.

New Omaha Vehicular Association (NOVA)
http://novacw.com/nova.htm


The non-supers rules in Autoduel Champions might have some ideas for Car Wars roleplaying. Most of the skills in that book were imported into Car Wars in the late 1980s.

My Car Wars files have archives of a few old Car Wars Web sites no longer online. I will look through those documents for any roleplaying rules.
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:43 PM   #17
Automohawk
 
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Texas
Default Re: CW as a roleplaying game?

My longest running GURPS character was an autoduelist. He ran from the mid 90's until he retired from adventuring (after some infinite worlds misadventures) earlier this year. When we would do car combat we would just convert to CW and use those rules then convert back for anything else. There were some quick and dirty conversions, sometimes done on the fly, but our group always goes with "whatever makes it more fun" as the hard and fast rule.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:06 AM   #18
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: CW as a roleplaying game?

My last CW campaign had a heavy RP element.

Outside combat, for the majority of the time we couldn't use CW attributes to manage the decision points so I fell back on the holy trinity of player investment, narrative imperative and GM fiat.

If a player made a good case for outcome A, and outcome A made the story more interesting, and outcome A didn't cause an unreasonable amount of work to incorporate (i.e. didn't break the integrity of the game world) then outcome A happened. If not the I would make a judgement call.

Rarely did I roll any dice and so we didn't need a RPG system to support the game (admittedly I used GURPS as a source of background material and planning the encounters, but I didn't use it whilst actually playing the game).

For example an escort driven by a PC rolled into a ditch during a "random encounter" that turned into a running fight. The driver was unhurt but his vehicle rendered inoperable and the rest of the convoy escaped and isn't in a position to stage a rescue. What do the bandits do with the driver?

Clearly the player wants the character to survive. In past interactions the characters has been amiable and non-confrontational, and in this case he puts his hands up, smiles weakly and surrenders.

The bandits could plausibly kill him out of hand and a revenge plot would be set up. This would be an interesting story arc for the other players, but frankly this group of bandits clearly outclass the player group. I then have to do a lot of work fully populating the gang and allowing the players to plan a counter attack. The player who's character got killed is going to be cheesed off that his character died and all the sub-plots hooks that I have been investing in the character go to waste. If he doesn't leave the game in disgust he'll be starting from scratch trying to integrate a new character with poor skills and the players are now about to take on a powerful enemy.

The bandits could capture him, requiring a rescue or ransom. This involves the same level of faff for me as GM populating the gang, it's base etc. for something that was supposed to be a side adventure and I'd prefer to complete some of the other story arcs rather than setting up another new one. I also have to provide a way for the players to contact/find the bandits which goes against the strike and fade rationale that the gang currently operates under.

The bandits could let him go. This would satisfy the player, allow continuity and it means I don't have to invest any more effort on the bandits and can refocus on the main plot. It also provides a new twist to the players interaction as they might now consider surrender rather than fight to the death. They may also start to nuance their encounters as not all bandits are "just orcs".

Is it plausible within the framework of the campaign world for the bandits to behave this way? Why not? If you have a reputation for honouring surrenders than you may not have to fight to the death (and burnt-out wreck) in every encounter and you will be more successful. You will also be a lower priority for law enforcement than the "Cannibal Wreckers" or "Toe-Cutters".

So that's what we did. The bandits let him go unharmed and even let him keep his personal equipment (after all he's got to survive to tell people about the merciful bandits for it to do them any good). If word gets out that if you surrender you get to keep your personal kit others might be less inclined to risk their lives just to defend their employers stuff.

The player is happy as he keeps his character and still earns the experience points for the encounter. The character doesn't feel too unhappy as only his employers equipment was lost to the bandits. The employer had already lost the vehicle anyway and was looking at having to hire on another unknown beginner, this way they at least get to keep an experienced driver (and can even dock some wages if they want to off-set the loss). The players don't have to risk all rescuing or revenging and can get closure by just chalking it up to bad luck (knowing that should they ever go against this group again they may have more options that fight or die). I can get them back to the main plot which I have invested a lot of time in already rather than investing more time in yet another distraction.

In all I found it a far better route to resolution that trying to tie the outcome into some barely appropriate skill or attribute or worse "roll 2 dice and pray".

Last edited by swordtart; 09-21-2018 at 04:17 AM.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:03 AM   #19
LokRobster
 
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Republic of Texas; FOS
Default Re: CW as a roleplaying game?

The Road Atlas and Survival Guide series is the main RP background detail that I've enjoyed from CW. It has some GURPS Autoduel stats along side the Car Wars stats, and I think it's a fun read.

Still have all the old paper books, and have collected the pdfs for portable reading on devices these days. Scout Commando Corp description is one of my favorite sections from vol2 West Coast.

From AADA vol 1 East Coast: Escape from Poughkeepsie is a classic of CW roleplaying.

I ran across a blog earlier this year about that particular adventure and totes it up as one of the top 3 re-usable RPG modules of all time :)
http://rolltop-indigo.blogspot.com/2018/04/
good RPG read if you GM or create stories.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:28 PM   #20
Chris Goodwin
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Default Re: CW as a roleplaying game?

Over on the TFT board I'm fond of pointing out that TFT is two different games: an arena combat game, and a roleplaying game, with a potentially gooey middle case being an arena campaign game.

Car Wars is much the same. A one-off arena fight where you don't bother naming the characters; an arena campaign game; a campaign game that may go from the arena to a road trip with encounters and some roleplaying; a full roleplaying game.

The Compendium with its skill set is more or less complete as a roleplaying game. One of the cool things about the skill system is that it's modular; you can add skills where needed without breaking things too badly. I've also thought of making the resolution mechanic for all of the skills, including vehicle handling: roll 2d6 + skill, target number is 7+. Bonuses and penalties would be situational; for combat, instead of each weapon having its own target number, each would instead have its own bonus or penalty.

For a roleplaying game, you might want to add some character protection -- more DP, in other words. Normal humans in Car Wars are pretty fragile, which works fine for a one-off arena fight but not so much in a full roleplaying game. (This same issue comes up a lot in TFT discussions as well.)

Attributes are IMO unnecessary but easy to add if desired. I'd use the rotating bonuses nature of Bodybuilding skill as a model; three levels of Bodybuilding effectively equate to one level of a hypothetical Strength attribute, for instance.

I'll note also that the Traveller RPG is a 2d6 system. Utility for Car Wars RPG play should be high.
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