The Science of Magic

[TippetsTX]

Fair warning: If your first instinct is to use a phrase similar to "it doesn't matter why it works, it's just magic" or apply a 'handwavium' approach to the mystical arts, this may not be the thread for you.

I thought it might be fun to see how other amateur 'metaphysicists' have designed or justified TFT's magic system within the context of their campaigns. For myself, I tend to to think about things like this more than is healthy, TBH. I regularly ask questions like "where does magic come from" or "how do spells alter the physical world", but I'm sure that I am not the only GM to try and address the nature of magic on Cidri (or wherever your game takes place).

So what natural (or unnatural) laws govern magical energies in your worlds?

[TippetsTX]

My own approach grew from a narrative seed I had nearly 40 years ago before I knew anything of the M'noren or Cidri. I imagined a universe under siege by creatures of pure chaos; demons, if you will. The remnants of intelligent life in that universe realize that their reality is doomed, but they have advanced to the point where breaking thru the quantum barriers into a new dimension is possible and so an incredible escape plan is formed; an exodus of the last remaining interstellar civilizations. Anyway, long story short, they succeed at great cost but the rift that they traveled thru cannot be fully sealed so they build a planet around it to serve as a 'lock'. The planet is the populated with strongest races and creatures (many custom designed using advanced genetic engineering) to serve as guardians and then the rest of the survivors leave for the stars to rebuild their civilizations. Getting to the point (finally), however, is the fact that they did not predict the effect that the chaotic energies bleeding thru the dimensional fissure would have on this world in the new universe; energies that in the ensuing millennia would become known as 'magic' and harnessed by the descendants of those original guardian races. This premise then became the foundation of my very first homebrew D&D world.

Fast forward a few years when I am introduced to TFT and my young mind sees an opportunity to adapt at least part of this idea to Cidri. What if the M'noren built the planet for a hidden purpose perhaps to contain some evil that they themselves had accidentally unleashed upon the universe?

[TippetsTX]

OK, so cutting to the chase, what exactly does any this have to do with the nature of magic in my current campaign?

Magic on Cidri is unique because it involves an element heretofor unknown to Mnoren scholars. In most other realities where 'magic' was found, the power comes one source... the positive life energies of all living creatures. Known as numena (or, ironically, dark matter in those realities less advanced in the understanding of metaphysics), this energy can be channeled and used to perform many mystical acts.

On Cidri, however, while numena is certainly present (as it must be wherever life exists), its influence is eclipsed by a more prevalent meta-force which the Mnoren came to call aether. Unlike numena, their Stewards (the elves) discovered that aether was more unstable and could only be manipulated using extreme psychic focus that most other races would not achieve for many generations. Initially, only they and the Tenant race known as 'goblins' could form any lasting connection to the power which made the Mnoren vulnerable for the first time in a millennia. Not surprisingly, it was the goblins who first came to understand the secret that aether was created from the combination of numena with a new and infinitely destructive energy source, something that was being generated from the heart of Cidri itself. It was the antithesis of life; an extradimensional energy that would be named malsporum or more simply, 'anti-life'.

[TippetsTX]

Still no equally obsessive world-builders wanna take the bait yet?

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Still no equally obsessive world-builders wanna take the bait yet?

Okay since you asked. (excuse the tongue in check reply).

In my game world magic is all really just slight of hand and great presentation. Wizards are magicians who never give up the secret of their tricks. It is all about what they can hide up there sleeves and often these are "elements of the Mnoren". For example, if you listen closely to a wizard casting fireball, while he's rummaging about in his over-sized sleeves you may hear him utter this magical incantation, "thompsonsubmachinegun".

No one talks about it, because it would ruin the illusion for all. So, please don't tell.

(now ducking and running) ;-)

[TippetsTX]

TBH, that's just as valid as my over-thought, pseudo-scientific approach.

[Axly Suregrip]

I need to admit, I ripped off the "magic" Thompson SMG from "Bored of the Rings". A cheap parody book. Funny though.

In these forums, I have seen others have mentioned that they model there magic after an author or concept. I am a bit surprised none have replied to you. As far as I go, I don't over think it.

BTW, "Bored of the Rings" describes halflings more the way I see them. Nasty thieves. It is a fun read.

[Jack O'All Trades]

I like your sci-fi take, Tippets.

For me, the ambiguity of how and why magic works is one of the core reasons it is called magic and not just 'physics' or, perhaps, 'religion.' This applies to the inhabitants of the universe more than the GM, of course. It leaves any response to this thread in a weird place, as I don't want to explain how I plan it all to work on the off-chance this influences one of my current player's experience if they happen to be looking at these forums in the near future.

None of this is to say that it doesn't matter why it works, as that influences how one actually runs the magic system (I never use just RAW, although my current setting is very close at the small scale).

So I'll talk about a different setting I ran briefly: the world was fundamentally based on broadening the concept of "illusions" to be more like 'proposed reality,' with increasingly strongly proposed or widely accepted illusions gaining greater reality. You could say, in a sense, that the world was in fact a collective dreamscape (perhaps like Chaos in Warhammer?). The broadened concept of illusions removed some of the (IMO) inconsistencies in RAW on how illusions work by allowing things like illusory bridges - so long as their was a consciousness sufficiently channeling their will towards the sense that the bridge existed, and it wasn't successfully rejected, it could be crossed, just like illusory swords can create stab wounds and so on.

So, the world was a consensus reality. Only layers of illusions of different strength. 'On the ground' the closest beings to understanding this were effectively gods, able to alter reality without the structure of spells. Mortals might have some sense that this is a mythic reality as a result, but their own conscious interaction with the fabric of reality is (effectively) only possible through careful training to channel their (relatively puny*) spirit. The Image and Illusion spells represent some ability to creatively break free from this, but are much weaker. Summoning (and really, all other spells, generally being forms of Summoning in the sense that they create some 'physical reality') reflect the general mortal restriction to specific 'moves.' Subconsciously, there is a much greater interaction - this is where Disbelief comes in, and forms of subconscious Disbelief are ultimately why Images are easer than Illusions which are easier than Summoning, while subconscious 'Belief' might be an equal contributor to the overall fabric of reality as the conscious actions of gods - this is certainly part of what upholds the basic sense that creatures have consistent properties, spells work in a consistent way, and so on (this is why the overall day-to-day 'feel' of the universe was more like Middle Earth and less like the Realms of Chaos with alien geometries and so on - the gods could try things like this, and did on occasion or in certain spaces, but even for them it was easier to work with or subtly manipulate the consensus).

As with any such explanation, one can always keep asking "why?" (for example, why do creatures of pure chaos exist? Why does numena have mass?) For me, it is sufficient to end the explanations at the point where I know how to answer questions as a GM and, should it be revealed to players/anyone else as an overall setting concept, it makes some sort of artistic sense. For me, this worked - I had my sense of how RAW should be interpreted or altered, and I feel this worked as a basis for plothooks with metacommentary on RPGing, world/'dungeon' creation, etc. I may even return to it (or perhaps the core concept in a different setting) at some point - I think it is unlikely this one comment will give it away if I'm running something months or years later.

*granted, are they actually weaker in some intrinsic sense? I say no, but it is an essentially philosophical question, as for all of their existence they are boxed into their form by the 'consensus.' Exceptions might be seen as 'unleashed' or as 'grown.'

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Still no equally obsessive world-builders wanna take the bait yet?

The answers you seek oh inquisitive one may all be found by visiting the world D'nal, which floats upon the infinite river of K'nal, then completing the quest for the lost encyclopedia of magic named the Arcanum Arcanorum, and reading volume 39, that being "Mana: A Unified Field Theory". Then the secrets of the universe will be fully revealed!

Or, if you don't happen to have the Gate to get there, I did recently described a big chunk of my group's cosmology in a post here: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...04#post2327504

While that post covers the "how" and "why" spells worked in out World, it lacks the over arching background, the actual creation of the World and the evolution of the gods and consciousness.

Long story short, just like our universe has a background radiation leftover from the Big Bang, so did this one. But by a tiny variation in the laws of physics, this background radiation, called Mana, was susceptible to conscious manipulation. Ambient Mana is everywhere, available to be focused and converted to other forms of energy or matter. Collect the Mana, and it will do what you tell it to, provided you know the "secret" language it responds to. The details of that are in the earlier post at the end of that link.

[Anomylous]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Fair warning: If your first instinct is to use a phrase similar to "it doesn't matter why it works, it's just magic" or apply a 'handwavium' approach to the mystical arts, this may not be the thread for you.

This clearly isn't the thread for me, then, as interesting and thought-provoking as it is! If I had to explain how magic works in my universe, I'd repeat the old line that mana is a semi-physical, semi-spiritual force that follows its own set of natural laws, much like those of the familiar physical universe, including conservation of energy, which is why spellcasting costs ST... and then I'd get on with the game.

Related: Somewhere in the dusty recesses of my memory, there's the idea that Cidri is in a universe where the fundamental constants of physics are slightly different, so that there's much less predictability at sub-atomic levels. The upshot is that modern computers wouldn't work (they rely on that predictability), but wizards can harness the increased uncertainty to produce "magical" effects.