Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-15-2018, 11:06 AM   #1
martinl
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default A Simplified Heroic Archer

The same as the existing advantage, with the following small adjustments:

If your bow skill is 18 or higher, you do not have to roll to rapid ready.
If your fast-draw (arrow) skill is 15 or higher, you do not need to roll fast draw.
If you have both, just shoot every turn at -3 (-1 with Weapon Master).


25 points

Seem reasonable to folks? It greatly cuts down on nuisance rolls for most Scouts for 5 pts. (I'm actually tempted to make it 30 points and ignore skill thresholds entirely, but in the DF context leaving them there doesn't hurt scouts any.)
martinl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2018, 01:55 PM   #2
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

I wouldn't want to charge 5 points for what I think should be a pair of single point advantages, though I'd require 19 and 16
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2018, 05:42 PM   #3
lachimba
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

Quote:
Originally Posted by martinl View Post
[I]If your bow skill is 18 or higher, you do not have to roll to rapid ready.
If your fast-draw (arrow) skill is 15 or higher, you do not need to roll fast draw.[/B]

These are both one point perks
lachimba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2018, 07:05 PM   #4
martinl
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
These are both one point perks
Plus an extra point each for the rule exemption perk to get "No Nuisance Rolls" for a combat ability, plus 1 more point to have it kick in at scout base skill levels ... but this isn't the GURPS board, it's the DF board, so the theorycraft is not so important.

What's important is this makes a scout with HA

"Shoot every turn at -3 (or -1)"

rather than

"Roll two different skills (one penalized) every turn and if you succeed at both rolls attack; but if you fail delay one turn per fail ... and if you crit fail any of the three rolls you make per attack you will probably suffer."

A lot less fiddly than RAW HA.
martinl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2018, 08:33 PM   #5
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

The 1pt advantage is to get rid of annoying ancillary things, like fast drawing a gun, which are quite rarely going to fail and really aren't fun to roll for, and I'd consider these rolls to be under that umbrella

As a player, I'm not interested in paying 5 points to get rid of 2 rolls I expect to fail only rarely, since 5pts is a level of Per, Wil, Striking ST, Bow Skill, Fit, etc. Good fun 'I can do stuff' stuff

If I wanted to do something for DFRPG I'd do like

Fast Firing Freak 5pts
Requires Bow 18, Fast Draw 15 and Heroic Archer
You do not need to roll to fast draw arrows and quick load bows unless the DM rules the situation to be particularly problematic, and your penalty to hit in such cases is reduced by 1. (-0 with weapon master, -2 without)
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2018, 04:52 AM   #6
martinl
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
As a player, I'm not interested in paying 5 points to get rid of 2 rolls I expect to fail only rarely, since 5pts is a level of Per, Wil, Striking ST, Bow Skill, Fit, etc. Good fun 'I can do stuff' stuff
I, on the other hand, am risk averse. Those two rolls are an extra ~1% crit fail and ~3% regular fail per arrow - and given the number of arrows a scout pumps out it these fail chances will add up. I'd pay 5 points for that easy.

In any case, everyone seems focused on the cost, which I don't actually care about too much - my main goal is to plausibly hide the two extra rolls per arrow, which interrupt the flow of play.
martinl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2018, 06:02 AM   #7
Harald387
 
Harald387's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

I've run archers (as the player of the Scout, a player in a group with the Scout, and as GM) with similar 'no nuisance rolls' setups before. If you're okay with the Scout becoming "I shoot it in the $best_vital_location" literally every turn, this works - it definitely speeds play. If you'd like your Scout to occasionally be encouraged to do something - anything - other than just 'roll 3 dice to put an arrow downrange' when their turn comes up, this is a bad choice.
__________________
M2: Everything is true.
GP: Even false things?
M2: Even false things are true.
GP: How can that be?
M2: I don't know man, I didn't do it.
Harald387 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2018, 07:30 AM   #8
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

Having played a DF Archer, I don't recall ever failing the fast draw check, though I did find it a bit annoying and did want to be rid of it, same with the quick load check, just not 5pts motivated


I'm very much in favor of getting rid of annoying rolls, as a DM and player both, so I think the goal is noble

Here is a link to another answer from Kromm when I asked thijs question, it coukkd easily be adapted to DFRPG (note, it's nearly 7yrs old, I don't agree with what I wrote in the thread as I had a very flawed grasp on the rules but Kromm is cool) http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...23&postcount=9

In order to solve the issue of archers just wanting to plunk high value targets, give them rapid Strikes and deceptive. The holy trinity of melee decision making is deciding a mix of rapid strike, deceptive, and hit location, and if scouts lack 2 of the 3 no wonder they go called shots all the time
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2018, 07:32 AM   #9
ArchonShiva
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

Are you trying to help the scout, or make the game more enjoyable for everyone else?

It seems bad to charge the scout for something which is intended to primarily benefit the others (although, don't et me started on DFRPG Wealth).

If it's for the scout, I'd make it optional. It will be attractive to a certain kind of player.

If it's in large part for the group (but still helps negate the occasional bad roll), don't charge anything for it. Make it "requires an effective skill of 16 after any -1 or -3", and drop one of the lesser provisions from Heroic Archer to make up for the ~[2] buff.

I'd tweak the last bit about crazy positions, maybe halve both penalties instead of negating the Bow penalty completely, or anything up to removing the entire paragraph.
__________________
Per-based Stealth isn’t remotely as awkward as DX-based Observation.
ArchonShiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2018, 08:30 AM   #10
martinl
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald387 View Post
If you'd like your Scout to occasionally be encouraged to do something - anything - other than just 'roll 3 dice to put an arrow downrange' when their turn comes up, this is a bad choice.
So you've seen or been a player who chose not to shoot because of those rolls?
martinl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
heroic archer, nuisance roll, scout

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.