10-22-2017, 01:12 PM | #11 |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Are swords worth it?
Short answer: It depends on the combat options you use.
Below assumes one hand+shield use of all the weapons. Sword vs axe: Sword can attack and parry, axe can only do one at time. Sword can both impale and cut axe only cut. Axe does one point more basic swing damage. Sword is more expensive by far. Thus things like: The axe user needs also to train in the shield skill or raise dodge enough to compensate for the parry ability of the sword where the one skill raises both attack and defense. If attacking the weapons the axe is an easier target to damage/destroy. The sword has higher maximum quality available in the long run but a fine axe is available at low cost. Sword vs spear: Sword can both impale and cut spear only impale and with a ready maneuver crush. The sword does more damage. Sword is more expensive by far. Thus things like: If attacking the weapons the spear is an easier target to damage/destroy. The sword has higher maximum quality available in the long run but a fine spear is available at low cost. Overall at 150 points a sword is barely the better weapon generically. You start to have more than one point in your main skills(thus vs axe raises both attack and defense), ST higher than 10(thus more damage than a spear) and your wealth is normally average or slightly above thus the sword is not all the money you have. At lower point values the cost matters a lot so more iffy as average wealth tends to be the absolute maximum. At higher the ability to raise just one skill and the higher quality cap of the sword matters more and the price a lot less. If the money is an issue(like average wealth and need to buy other expensive things) in that the staring then maybe a cheap sword and a club as backup weapon if the sword breaks... |
10-22-2017, 01:16 PM | #12 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Are swords worth it?
One-handed swords aren't, but two-handed swords are different.
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10-22-2017, 01:28 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Are swords worth it?
What the heck is a "Very Fine" spear? What kind of wood would you make it from?
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10-22-2017, 01:37 PM | #14 | |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Are swords worth it?
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There are tradeoffs to consider, to be sure, but not one simple always-best choice for all cases. |
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10-22-2017, 01:48 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Are swords worth it?
Essential. Then you get a Shatterproof put on it.
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Fred Brackin |
10-22-2017, 01:49 PM | #16 | |
Untitled
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: between keyboard and chair
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Re: Are swords worth it?
Quote:
Because if you're going to be breaking the rule about how only swords can be Very Fine, you may as well go all-out and say it's a deity's weapon.
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Rob Kelk “Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.” – Bernard Baruch, Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950 No longer reading these forums regularly. |
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10-22-2017, 01:52 PM | #17 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Are swords worth it?
Quote:
Last edited by sir_pudding; 10-22-2017 at 01:55 PM. |
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10-22-2017, 02:00 PM | #18 | |||||||
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Are swords worth it?
Thank you, everybody, for your well-thought-out and polite replies! I'll try to respond to some of your points here.
One thing lots of people mentioned was that only swords and fencing weapons can be Very Fine. By Basic Set, yes! But Low-Tech, p. 59 extends Very Fine to all melee weapons. It's a whopping +49 CF... But that still only comes out to +$1,960 for the Spear and +$2,450 for the Axe. Quote:
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Now, undoubtedly they had their own ruts of tradition that kept them from improving and adapting as well as possible, but over the centuries they made changes in armor, they changed the shape of their shield, they varied the use of ranged weapons, they changed their fortifications, etc. - they were not stuck in outdated ways, overall. And they kept the one-handed sword. If the spear had been more cost-effective, they would have used it. Something recommended the sword to them, not as an emblem of nobility, but as a practical weapon, and I don't think the standard Gurps weapon stats reflect that something sufficiently. Now, I don't think the sword should be a wonder weapon. But it should be one among many reasonable options. Quote:
Heavier overall armor isn't going to make the sword top the spear either, unless we're talking very heavy indeed. I redid the calculations with DR ranging from 3-6 instead of 0-6, and the fine spear still gives you a little more injury on the average. And remember, we're talking about a wide strength range, ST 10-16. For regular soldiers, 9-12 seems like a more likely range, and that emphasises the advantages of big adds over swing damage again. If you restrict ST to that range, swords fall even further behind spears and axes. Quote:
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Here's my stance: all the options should be good choices, all things considered. Some weapons are better at something, others at other things; more expensive weapons should be better overall, although not in all specifics. And that includes the points about status and Fast-Draw that I raised in the opening post. Fast-Draw is one thing: being able to have your weapon ready in your hand instantly is certainly an advantage. But it costs points too. Is it worth foregoing the greater lethality and higher effective skill you'd get for a superior-quality spear, and everything else you could spend those Fast-Draw character points on? I'm not sold on that.
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https://diceandlives.wordpress.com |
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10-22-2017, 02:38 PM | #19 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Are swords worth it?
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10-22-2017, 03:05 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Are swords worth it?
Quote:
As for Roman legionaries, they used the gladius for the same reason most warriors have historically used swords...as their backup weapon. When they went into battle the first weapon they had in their hands was always a pilum...a spear. Of course they usually ended up using their swords because the pilum was a throwable spear, allowing them to inflict significant casualties before the enemy infantry could close to close quarters. And that's the real reason why swords remained such a widespread thing. Because they were usually easy to draw from a sheath so once the enemy had closed enough that your longer ranged weapons were at a disadvantage, you could switch to your sword to seal the deal. |
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Tags |
comparisons, cost, melee weapons |
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