The 2017 W23 Digital Release, GURPS stuff and Speculation Thread

[philreed]

Originally Posted by Refplace

How many months production would you say was lost towards other GURPS products due to this kickstarter?

The project should have gone to print before Christmas.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by philreed

The project should have gone to print before Christmas.

That explains the May to August slipping in release date.
The dearth of new GURPS products would likely not appear so bad if that had been the reality.
Lets see for new products I count 12 for 2016, last one in November, 14 for 2015, 12 for 2014, 7 for 2013, 7 for 2012(the year of InNomiane and Car Wars), 12 for 2011.
So really last year was 1 a month which was average and had it went to the printers on time we may have seen new stuff for this year.
My guess is the stretch goals had a lot to do with the delay.
So we lost 3 to 8 months (between December and possibly up to August but very likely sooner) of new GURPS production due to the kickstarter.
That is not nearly as bad as it feels and we really should stop whining now :)

We have also seen a decline in apparent digital volume due to Classic GURPS releases being mostly finished and InNominae, Transhuman Space, and Traveler petering out.
I think Transhuman Space is the largest GURPS setting by number of books published and it is a GOOD setting but suffered from appearing during the edition change and probably weaker genre popularity than say Fantasy.
I think the "Not really a setting" series like Dungeon Fantasy, Monster Hunters, Action, and After The End are doing better.
Speculation on why people? For me its that as a GM I like to build my worlds and so I have to toss out less material in those books than a fleshed out setting. That also makes them have a broader range of utility.
Settings are IMHO critical to a game as people want to get started right away, so are these sort of generic settings with additional support like the Location and Hot Spot series good enough for most people? or do we need more fully fleshed out settings?

As for InNomine I love the setting but doubt I would ever run it as is (back to me liking my own world building) and the GURPS conversion felt to bland and I would like to see another attempt made at building it.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by GM Joe

But the nice thing is that the GURPS line is getting a renewal.

If, on the other hand, one has three writing projects, a comps delivery, and some promotional efforts, all stuck fast behind the fatberg, one may have a slightly different perspective.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

If, on the other hand, one has three writing projects, a comps delivery, and some promotional efforts, all stuck fast behind the fatberg, one may have a slightly different perspective.

I hear and feel your pain, I only just yesterday realized this may be why I haven't heard back on an outline I submitted at the end of last year.
And of course I dont know for sure that is the reason, after all he may have hated the outline enough to ignore any further nudges on it.

However and in keeping with the spirit of the thread...
We lost 3 to 8 months production for new GURPS material and I am hoping it may only be 4 or 5 months and some projects may squeek in anyhow that require little editing (We still have PK after all) but art and layout are probably holdups now, so there is that.

So when do we think we will see new material?
In the meantime I hope the CreateSpace project is raising GURPS awareness, along with the recent releases of GURPS Discworld and GURPS Mars Attacks so that by the time the DFRPG hits the market it will be primed with new customers and stores willing to stock it for more visibility.

Oh and any guesses on the listed projects in the pipeline? I feel like a failure here with no speculation so far this year on new stuff.

[wabishtar]

Originally Posted by philreed

Our GURPS team is focused on Dungeon Fantasy and will remain so until the project is completed and at print. Then they will direct their energies to completing the associated PDF titles.

We cannot throw additional staff at the GURPS line and have many projects underway, with the bulk of our efforts and attention devoted to the company's largest sellers.

I get that that is the economically sound option right now, and I get that Steve Jackson Games is a company, and they have to pursue that. But honestly, I find Dungeon Fantasy to be the most dull, boring thing GURPS has ever put out. I love GURPS because of the well thought out settings, the amazingly detailed open worlds, and the originality it's do-anything-you-want system allows. Dungeon Fantasy seems to be an effort to make GURPS Dull D&D Clone, and it's alarming me that the company that is not only throwing most of its weight behind it, but actively denying the projects I like, the kind of projects that I feel made GURPS what it is, in order to get it done.

I get that the company is in tough financial straights lately, I get that GURPS hasn't been a big seller for Steve Jackson Games, and I get that they have to go where the money is. Everything they're doing makes sense, I understand why they're doing it, and I bear no one any ill will. That being said, I've been playing GURPS for about 20 years now, and this makes me worry about the future of the game. Yes, Dungeon Fantasy will bring in more players, but they'll be players who enjoy Dungeon Fantasy. That will incentivize making more games like Dungeon Fantasy, and since GURPS has limited resources, clearly the Dungeon Fantasy games will take precedent over the old supplements that weren't nearly as profitable.

I don't know exactly what to say here. I think Steve Jackson Games is a great company, and their GURPS product has brought me endless hours of joy, so I want them to have all the success in the world. At the same time, however, that success seems to come at the cost of the supplements that led me to fall in love with the system in the first place, and that just makes me very sad.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by wabishtar

That being said, I've been playing GURPS for about 20 years now, and this makes me worry about the future of the game. Yes, Dungeon Fantasy will bring in more players, but they'll be players who enjoy Dungeon Fantasy. That will incentivize making more games like Dungeon Fantasy, and since GURPS has limited resources, clearly the Dungeon Fantasy games will take precedent over the old supplements that weren't nearly as profitable.

A couple of things to consider in hopes of raising your spirits.
Just because someone likes Dungeon Fantasy that does not mean it is all they like or will ever like. So some of the players who come to GURPS because of Dungeon Fantasy may stay for the rest or at least other parts of the system.
First you have to get the customers in the door though and popular genres are more likely to do that than unpopular ones.

Next for consideration is that the bulk of our GURPS products do not come from staff but freelance writers. There is an expansive wishlist with many projects no one has written for, not because they wont be approved but because they are not interested or feel unqualified for that item.
However it is a broad list and as long as SJG thinks it will sell and the author puts out a good product that does not burn an inordinate amount of editing resources they will likely get the green light.
I do not expect GURPS to focus soley on the DF line, though we will likely see more product out for it this year than any other (including Pyramid issues).

[Christopher R. Rice]

You can't have it both ways. You can't say "I want more GURPS support!" and then turn around and say "Why am I not getting new GURPS books?" because all I hear is "Why are my specific needs not being catered to by this company?" SJGames went out on a limb - a limb that caught fire and burned them the last time they traversed it - and did a Kickstarter. This time for GURPS. Something I never thought would happen.

Let them get DFRPG out the door. Let them gather the data they are looking for. Be a part of that data. Be part of the solution. You want more GURPS supplements? Buy what they are putting out. Talk about it to others. Demo it. Make your voice heard on what you'd like, but support them none the less. That's how you get a business to pay attention to you and cater to your needs. Support them and then become vocal about what you'd like to see.

At least that's how I see it anyways. I've been away from the boards and only stopped in after I saw a couple of posts in this thread. I'll disappear now. Take my thoughts as they are or don't. :-)

[philreed]

Originally Posted by wabishtar

I get that the company is in tough financial straights lately

This is an inaccurate statement. We are cash positive, pay our bills, and generate a living for over three dozen people.

Originally Posted by wabishtar

I get that GURPS hasn't been a big seller for Steve Jackson Games,

This is accurate. GURPS did not make our top 40 last year and hasn't made that list since 2013.

Originally Posted by wabishtar

and I get that they have to go where the money is.

Steve Jackson Games is a business. Having one owner who is a gamer gives us a lot of flexibility, but at the end of the day we owe it to our stakeholders -- the staff, distributors, retailers, gamers, our printers, and the gaming industry as a whole -- to do what is necessary to guarantee that we remain in business.

As it is, we have put more GURPS titles into print over the last six months than we have for years. And we're not done; Dungeon Fantasy is our biggest GURPS release in years.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by philreed

This is accurate. GURPS did not make our top 40 last year and hasn't made that list since 2013.

And this is why I LOVE SJ Games.

My favorite gaming system is GURPS, because I can literally build any character I can imagine. (They may not be optimized, but I can still build them...)

But GURPS is a labor of love for SJ Games. Almost any other company would have stripped support for GURPS years ago, to focus on higher-margin products. (E.g., during the days of AD&D 2E, most of my favorite game worlds--Dark Sun, Planescape, Birthright, SpellJammer--were dropped because they were low-performing. Yes, the AD&D 2E system was fractured to heck and back, and they NEEDED to trim the game worlds back, but it was painful...)

I love you guys. Sincerely.

Keep up the good work!

Edit: But I do hope you guys finish the back-catalog of scans of GURPS Classic titles. I've less than a dozen titles on my "wishlist" that I am aching to buy, if they would just appear someday on w23. :-) But that's low-return-on-investment products, so I don't expect to see them anytime before 2020, sigh...

[adm]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

...SJGames went out on a limb - a limb that caught fire and burned them the last time they traversed it - and did a Kickstarter. ...

The last Kickstarter SJGames completed was the Car Wars Arenas reprint. It went very well based on lessons learned from the OGRE KS.

SJGames has done a wonderful job of providing support for a third tier product line. Some things have been dropped*, but they appear to be watching the market to gauge the best option of moving forward, and I truly appreciate that.



*I would really like to get GURPS WWII: Japan to complete the major powers of WWII, but that line has been ended.