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Old 12-19-2020, 10:14 PM   #1
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default safest way to break down a door unarmed: head butt?

Head Butt is a technique introduced on page 74 of Martial Arts.

Although the first line might lead people to think it's only available to Brawlers/Karateka, the † note explained in the 3rd paragraph indicates you can do it at DX-2 instead of a -1 tech for those combat skills: with the caveat it has -1 to damage.

There is this note:
Self-inflicted injury for a target with DR 3+ applies to the skull;
however, your skull’s DR 2 protects normally
This is referencing B379's "Hurting Yourself" which is taking 1 crushing per 5 damage inflicted.

To actually suffer negative effects of the brain/skull multipliers (x4 from crushing) you would need to take 3 crushing, so that 1 penetrating damage gets through after subtracting 2DR.

This would mean that you need to inflict 15 damage: meaning you can safely inflict up to 14 damage per hit.

Punches/kicks don't have that benefit: even if you enjoy 1 DR from some simple shoes/gloves you're still limiting yourself to 9 damage, as at 10 you start hurting your hand.

MA71's Elbow Strike is probably the best competitor: with a 1:10 ratio it means you can inflict up to 9 damage with a bare elbow, and with a simple DR 1 (like a leather jacket) you could inflict up to 19 damage, since at 20 the 2 crushing damage would put 1 damage through to your arm.

I'm wondering if this is realistic though: is it actually safer to try to ram through a door with your bare head than with your bare elbow, much less your bare fist?

People tend to kick through doors because of shoes providing protection, although 1 DR only puts you on bar with a 1/10 attack and I don't think there's a "1/10 hurting yourself" version of a leg attack (you'd think a knee attack? but nope...) similar to Elbow Strike or Hammer Fist.

Slams might IRL be the next best thing but they also have this probability of inflicting damage to you which the Head Butt lacks...

So long as you have no chance of inflicting 15 damage (2d+2 or less) head butts seem pretty safe. Am I missing some way this could be a little more dangerous to attempt?

The biggest risk might be if you get some rare critical hit for x3 damage at which point 5 damage is dangerous, but even that you can avoid by making sure your attack can't do 5 damage: 1d-2 at most would do 12 and be eternally safe for gradually wearing a door down, unlike a 1d-2 punch which if you even got a x2 crit on a roll of 3 damage would lose you 1 HP.
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:29 PM   #2
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
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Default Re: safest way to break down a door unarmed: head butt?

Mechanically, you are correct; however, outside of a comedy game, something like "You have a concussion for the next 1dx30 minutes."

There probably is a rule somewhere that covers this, though; there usually is.
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: safest way to break down a door unarmed: head butt?

In real life? Not likely. I'd guess if you want in the room, you would use your shoulder because you can maximize your push. If you just want to put a hole in the door, kicking would probably work best for the reason you give.
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:41 PM   #4
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: safest way to break down a door unarmed: head butt?

Since the damage that would come to an individual who used a headbutt would come from the brain bumping up against the skull, no form of DR should realistically prevent self-injury. It is different when a creature has special weapons for head attacks, as they evolved to prevent the trauma.
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Old 12-20-2020, 07:04 AM   #5
RyanW
 
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Default Re: safest way to break down a door unarmed: head butt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Since the damage that would come to an individual who used a headbutt would come from the brain bumping up against the skull, no form of DR should realistically prevent self-injury. It is different when a creature has special weapons for head attacks, as they evolved to prevent the trauma.
Or perhaps you could say that the 2 damage "prevented" by skull DR should count for something, especially if it is crushing damage.
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Old 12-20-2020, 09:11 AM   #6
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: safest way to break down a door unarmed: head butt?

The problem with rating the skull at DR2 is that the skull is not the outer layer of the head. A house rule I thought up years ago but never implemented is that 1 point of wounding from a head blow should apply BEFORE reduction for skull DR. (Mind you, that was considered in the context of a broader reworking of penetration and wounding from the existing GURPS damage types.)
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Old 12-20-2020, 09:55 AM   #7
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: safest way to break down a door unarmed: head butt?

It is an easy test to perform, just have someone headbutt a door a couple dozen times at full force and observe the consequences. In 99% of the cases, I promise you that the human is going down before the door goes down. At the very least, this suggests that skull DR is semi-ablative (which is probably a more realistic interpretation of a relatively thin piece of living bone).
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Old 12-20-2020, 10:43 AM   #8
Alden Loveshade
 
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Default Re: safest way to break down a door unarmed: head butt?

GURPS Supers Third Edition has an advantage that I think is called Invulnerability; it basically means you're immune to physical damage.

Once in a comic supers game at a convention, the players used a PC with Invulnerability as a battering ram, hitting a door head first. It worked, and we found it pretty funny.
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Old 12-20-2020, 11:07 AM   #9
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: safest way to break down a door unarmed: head butt?

If you're hitting a door unarmed, a serious consideration is whether you're doing any damage at all. Sure, the headbutt rules imply you can headbutt for up to 14 damage before you hurt yourself, but you're not going to actually be able to do 14 damage with a headbutt.
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Old 12-20-2020, 11:12 AM   #10
Phil Masters
 
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Default Re: safest way to break down a door unarmed: head butt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade View Post
GURPS Supers Third Edition has an advantage that I think is called Invulnerability; it basically means you're immune to physical damage.

Once in a comic supers game at a convention, the players used a PC with Invulnerability as a battering ram, hitting a door head first. It worked, and we found it pretty funny.
That would be Achilles from Grrl Power. Also tends to intercept opponents' impaling attacks on his colleagues with his eyes, as this has been known to cause the opponent to drop their weapon in shock.

(Competent opponents tend to drop buildings on him, as his strength is merely high-human-normal.)

Anyway, given the scary number of former professional sportspeople who are showing up these days with long-term brain impairment thanks to careers of head impacts at a considerably lower level than headbutting a door, this is one of those ideas that I'd incline to reality-check out of existence...
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Last edited by Phil Masters; 12-20-2020 at 11:16 AM.
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