Making a diffgerent magic system

[Jakman217]

I've been trying to make a universe in GURPS that is based around a functional magic system. Along with the fact that its a fairly complicated and diverse, it is the basis of a long term magical world. It would stretch from the classical medieval style to a interstellar universe. Magic is consistent and quantifiable, similar to physics, but it is easy to manipulate around physics. I'll try to explain the gist of it here, but it may take a lot longer to go into details.

There are 5 methods of magic. (it is in the order I want to get them working in)
Symbolic magic is syntactic magic. The power of the spells is roughly equivalent to the size of the spell and the investment of energy of the spell. The time to draw it is roughly equivalent to the size times the complexity. All stand alone spells are 'instantaneous' (count as 1 second in combat), all multi-word spells are continuous at the cost of 1 instantaneous cost per second (single word spells can be modified to continuous via another symbol). If the spell is written in non-permanent inks it disappears after mana stops flowing through it.
Harmonic magic is also very syntactic. It is the manipulation of magic through music. Use a similar, but much smaller, set of words to the symbolic magic, but it is more unstable and inconsistent. Once a magical phrase has been finished it goes, if the phrase is looped it will be continuous. Roughly the same method.
Thought is like Psionics lite. It includes minimal PK as well as some Telepathy (projecting thoughts) and Empathy (Receiving thoughts). Nothing to complex, but requires large amounts of training to do it well.
Physical Magic is magic used like chi. The rules of how it works currently would be re-factored to apply to magic.
The Unspoken Word. Think of them as the words of God. Very powerful words that cannot be directly learned. Only the Seraphim (Highest angel Rank) can use them ordinarily. Everyone else uses it by luck.

Symbol magic requires contact unless modified to 'throw' it. It enchantments require constant magic to maintain the enchanted state. Magic that modifies or creates things within the boundaries of magic stay as they are possible.
All magic grants unaging and age control.

My problem comes in a mixture of balancing how ER ( Called MP) is spent and recovers so it is feasible to buff yourself without draining your MP to nothing in the first five seconds. The second is the creation of an elemental table that is workable in both medieval and futuristic settings. The last is a list of 'words' for both symbol and harmonic that is diverse and unique without there being a symbol for everything. I want people to work with the tools they are given and be creative with it.

Any help would be appreciated. If you want more information just ask and I'll answer. If you want a copy of the file of ideas I've written up PM me. Thanks.

[ericthered]

Ok, could you give some more limits:

What CAN'T Syntactic magic do?

can I turn you into a frog?
can I translate a book?
can I see fine detail on the moon?
can I see the back side of the moon?
can I travel to the moon?
can I track a killer with it?
can I weave a shirt faster with it?
can I use it to fly?
can I move faster using it?
Is battle magic feasible?
can I create or destroy matter with it?
can I use it to create an infinite source of energy?

The words chosen should reflect these limitations. Thats not a comprehensive list, its just to get the ideas flowing.

[Jakman217]

The way I look at the spell creations is as such. You think of what you want, if it is possible think of the process to create it using the words. The best example I could give is the spell to create a perfect bag of holding.

Create New Spacial Dimension, Bind Space to Matter amount (Let space grow and shrink to match the ammount of material inside), Create Bridge to New Dimension, Create bag, bind portal to the new dimension to the bag’s opening, High power Sustaining symbol or Mana Crystal Reactor for maintaining Altered space. Modify gravity to lessen weight.

Please note, there is no wrong way to make a spell, only better methods.

[ericthered]

But what CAN'T you do with it?

you need to set out general rules before we can come up with specific ones. Sure, its important to know the words, but we can't know what word types we need until we have a feel for the system.

If it helps, what EASY to do with the system and what's HARD? that tells us a lot about the underlying mechanics of what's going on.

[Jakman217]

Ok, sorry I didn't really answer that question. The only thing you can't really do with it is create a real soul.

Something easy to do would be a strengthen spell, it is conceptual, but fairly definite in meaning. Something hard would be creating wormholes to separate planets.

You can turn someone into a frog with plenty of time and energy, but it would be the equivalent of killing them.

You cannot translate a book, but transfer the knowledge needed to read it from someone who can read it.

You can see the fine detail of the moon with relative ease.

With some difficulty or creativity you can see the back of the moon.

You can travel to the moon, but it could take a few minutes to days to prepare the for the journey, depending on the method.

You can see into the past, assuming it hasn't been blocked with magic, trace the magic they used, but you can't know with magic alone if the knife is theirs.

You can weave a shirt faster with your hands, you can create it from an atomic level, you can shape the thread into a shirt.

You can fly with difficulty because you have to counteract your weight, gravity and friction at all times.

You can make your self faster.

Battle magic is feasible, but a single unprepared mage on a battlefield is not an army.

Matter can be created and destroyed, with extreme cost and time.

Infinite energy is high level magic that requires a Mana crystal to store it in until it either stops or explodes, or a 'drain' to keep it from exploding on itself. It also requires an initial investment. It is also stopped cold by nearby reactors that drain ambient mana quickly or other mana draining / repelling spells. Highly temperamental and situational.

[ericthered]

Ok, so physics mostly holds and requires extreme effort to cheat. Entropy cannot easily be cheated. knowledge cannot be created or even manipulated. Energy is mostly conserved.

With magic that adheres so closely to the laws of physics, a powerful word set will mirror physics, while a weak one will not.

you seem to want to do lots with time, space, and interdimensional stuff. You ought to consider how big a lexicon you need.

[samd6]

Okay, Thought, Physical, and Unspoken Word are all fairly easy to do.
Physical is taking Chi powers, swapping out the power mod, and refluffing them.
Thought is doing the same with Psi powers.

Unspoken Word sounds like it uses the Words Of Power, and the angels have a pool of points that they can spend to get critical success on their activation rolls.

Once you have lexicons for Symbol and Harmonic:
Symbol sounds like it uses energy costs exclusively, and bases parameters off of energy. This gives any particular set of words and parameters a fixed cost, and the only question is whether the caster succeeds.
Harmonic sounds like it uses a flat cost for the words, and bases parameters off of MoS or skill penalties. This leads to less expensive but more variable magic.

[Jakman217]

Originally Posted by samd6

Okay, Thought, Physical, and Unspoken Word are all fairly easy to do.
Physical is taking Chi powers, swapping out the power mod, and refluffing them.
Thought is doing the same with Psi powers.

Unspoken Word sounds like it uses the Words Of Power, and the angles have a pool of points that they can spend to get critical success on their activation rolls.

This is Spot on, these are rather thin and indefinite as they are fairly self explanatory. I'll also assume you meant angels not angles. :)

Once you have lexicons for Symbol and Harmonic:
Symbol sounds like it uses energy costs exclusively, and bases parameters off of energy. This gives any particular set of words and parameters a fixed cost, and the only question is whether the caster succeeds.

This is a yes and no. Yes, when using Symbol magic it is more dependent on the energy cost. But the maximum allowed in any individual spell is dependent on the size of the symbol as a whole. Also, in combat you can draw these in a given time. The total time to draw is dependent on the size and the number of layers or words in it. Add in difficulty to draw based on knowledge of the symbols used and the total complexity and you have the difficulty to draw it.

Harmonic sounds like it uses a flat cost for the words, and bases parameters off of MoS or skill penalties. This leads to less expensive but more variable magic.

This is also spot on, I wouldn't say they are less expensive necessarily, but they can be cast quicker.

Ok, so physics mostly holds and requires extreme effort to cheat. Entropy cannot easily be cheated. knowledge cannot be created or even manipulated. Energy is mostly conserved.

With magic that adheres so closely to the laws of physics, a powerful word set will mirror physics, while a weak one will not.

you seem to want to do lots with time, space, and interdimensional stuff. You ought to consider how big a lexicon you need.

The main thing is that magic allows you to suspend the ordinary laws of physics. The laws of physics is like gravity, no matter how hard magic struggles against it, it will always return to physics.
As for the Size of the lexicon I am curious my self as to how big this would be. I think starting with a standard set of Elements would help me get to where I need to be, but I can't think of a good set of elements that fit both 'low' and 'high' tech magic.

knowledge cannot be created or even manipulated.

Knowledge can be copied and manipulated within and between minds, not outside it.

Sidenote, for the sake of story sanity time travel is impossible, but viewing the solid past and the undetermined future is possible.

[Jakman217]

I'm having a problem making making the base for the spell lexicon. I think starting with a standard set of Elements would help me get to where I need to be, but I can't think of a good set of elements that fit both 'low' and 'high' tech magic. Can anyone think of a good set?

[ericthered]

you want a set of elements that makes sense both in high and low tech?

Space
motion
heat
light
metal (conductors)
slime (organic substances)
rock (crystals and other ionic solids)

Thats a basic division that makes sense at both high and low tech. It may not be the size you want, but the concepts are easy to understand at low tech and have high tech justifications. (the matter categories are done by bond type)