Tank vs. Cannon

[Michele]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The I-go might even have riveted armor. Put a 12-lb cast iron (not lead) cannonball in the middle of one of the frontal plates and said plate will probably radically deform and the rivets would pop loose explosively. A serious danger to the crew.

You might or might not get a neat circular hole in the armor but that armor was not but to handle that cannonball.

I agree, and low-quality armor (common on such low-end early-war designs) when subjected to such extreme stress without being pierced, will probably spall on the inside too. So, even if it's not riveted, you have metal bits flying in a quite cramped compartment. If they don't hit the crew, they may well hit the front transmission or the steering or some other critical component.

[johndallman]

The tricky part will be hitting. The gun crew are very vulnerable to the tank's machine gun(s), and if the tank is zig-zagging, getting a hit will be very hard. So a close-range ambush seems necessary.

[The Colonel]

Thanks - I had visions of the cannon being hidden in ambush in some Chinese city, waiting on a tank which is cheerfully ambling along a street chasing away men with no anti-tank weapons, at which point either a screen is dropped or a corner rounded and some ancient cannon lets fly.
I'm pretty sure that there were muzzle loader cannon of this kind still kicking about in China in the late 1930s - they would, of course, be doomed on the battlefield (as the Afghans found out in 1919) and only likely to hit a tank by accident, but I thought ambush might work.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Thanks - I had visions of the cannon being hidden in ambush in some Chinese city, waiting on a tank which is cheerfully ambling along a street chasing away men with no anti-tank weapons, at which point either a screen is dropped or a corner rounded and some ancient cannon lets fly.
I'm pretty sure that there were muzzle loader cannon of this kind still kicking about in China in the late 1930s - they would, of course, be doomed on the battlefield (as the Afghans found out in 1919) and only likely to hit a tank by accident, but I thought ambush might work.

maybe from behind.

if nothing else you don't have to actually destroy or immobilise the tank to retreat or even get the crew to bail out and run.

Say you a commander of Japanese type 95 tank pursuing lightly armoured Chinese troops done the Street and suddenly a Cannon ball bangs into you. Only you don't actually know it's some C19th cannon at that point. What you know is something much heavier than you were expecting just made a very load noise hitting you.

Are you going to assume that it was a C19th Cannonball, or maybe those Chinese chaps have got hold of something more modern and dangerous to ambush you with and you just got lucky with their first shot.

Your tank's not great for communicating with the outside world (likely no Radio certainly no tank telephone, you communicate with the other crew by switching lights on and off, and it's you in a hand moved turret)


However what you are is pretty fast so maybe the smart move is to get out of there

[Michele]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

What you know is something much heavier than you were expecting just made a very load noise hitting you.

[...]
maybe the smart move is to get out of there

There's definitely that, too.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

. . . waiting on a tank which is cheerfully ambling along a street chasing away men with no anti-tank weapons, at which point either a screen is dropped or a corner rounded and some ancient cannon lets fly.

Consider carefully if you want your PCs lose with this kind of tank, which may well shorten their life expectancy. If you can arrange to hit it in the rear on the right, that's the engine compartment on a Type 95. That isn't proof against ordinary small arms, so a canon hit should immobilise the tank thoroughly.

[cvannrederode]

I think that in any event, the terminal ballistics of a large, soft iron ball at low velocity (comparatively) will be very different that those of a higher speed, conical, hardened penetrator.

It won't be penetration, so much as energy being transferred through, with deformation and spalling happening.

So...more akin to a HESH round hit that a HEAT round?

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by cvannrederode

I think that in any event, the terminal ballistics of a large, soft iron ball at low velocity (comparatively) will be very different that those of a higher speed, conical, hardened penetrator.

It won't be penetration, so much as energy being transferred through, with deformation and spalling happening.

Cast iron is pretty hard, and if you shoot a 5400 g, 120 mm diameter projectile at most pre-WW II tanks at 450 m/s, I think it will go through at least one side. Some of those had 12 mm riveted armour on the best-protected areas.

[mr beer]

If you can ambush the tank like this, you should be using Molotov cocktails as your follow up attack. Like many situations, surprise attacks become more interesting and enjoyable when they involve setting things alight.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by mr beer

If you can ambush the tank like this, you should be using Molotov cocktails as your follow up attack. Like many situations, surprise attacks become more interesting and enjoyable when they involve setting things alight.

To quote Nickolas Moran when he does an exit drill from a tank, "Oh my God, the tank is on fire"