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Old 12-29-2021, 08:13 AM   #11
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Default Re: Big shock setting change (basically discussing a campaign idea)

Given that the expansion of the universe is redshifting distant stars, it seems to me that the light from a vessel moving with an Alcubierre drive should, too, but that could just be due to my admittedly less-than-thorough understanding of the physics involved.
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Old 12-29-2021, 10:02 AM   #12
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Given that the expansion of the universe is redshifting distant stars, it seems to me that the light from a vessel moving with an Alcubierre drive should, too, but that could just be due to my admittedly less-than-thorough understanding of the physics involved.
I thought of that later but he follow on thought to _that_ is that warp drive red shift might be so high that the signature would become near zero. I mean the Hubble Constant is only a few tens of miles per second. It's bvecause it adds up over billions of years that it becomes as significant as it does.

<shrug> I've probably caused the summoning of one of the Science Police who will inflict a gedanken experiment on us that proves that his causes time travel. :)
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Old 12-30-2021, 10:23 AM   #13
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It seems kind of trite to have it be the US that makes the discovery. I'll stipulate that it probably wouldn't be Europe, and that the Transpacific Socialist Alliance probably wouldn't have kept it secret. But why not have it be India, or Brazil, or the other Pacific alliance that includes Japan, Korea, and Australia? Or even Silas Duncan Station on Ceres?
I agree with this sentiment. To add: I think the reason the USA is the center of conspiracy theories is because it's the last superpower. We have our fingers in everything. The CIA may not murder as many people as the KGB, but considering the history of regime change, the USA is likely responsible for far more turmoil and death. Even if this assumption turn out to be wrong, I think it's a reasonable one for a lot of people - especially people already opposed to US imperialism - to make.

Meanwhile, Transhuman Space assumes that the old powers are waning and new powers are rising. The setting is about radical change, geopolitics included. The United States of 2100 is no longer the sole superpower, and might not even be a super-power at all anymore. To me it both makes more sense and is more narratively interesting to let somebody else have this one.

Also, to prevent sidetracking this into a political argument, I would like to remind everyone of 112434 Shezbeth and its many conspiracy theories, one of my favorite parts of the setting which seems to line up pretty well with this idea. A primordial black hole embedded in a hunk of rock drifting in the Kuiper Belt. Discovered in 2282 by Dr. Shiyomi Muldoon of the TSA's Chatarang Space University, Muldoon launched an expedition to the object consisting of the "antique deep space operations vehicle Alan B. Shepherd, donated by eccentric billionaire David Mbengi." The crew, meanwhile, was composed entirely of ghosts and sapient AIs provided by a three Christian hyperevolutionist ministers from the L5 Seventh Heaven colony, while mining equipment and fuel was donated by Vosper-Babbage.

Some doubt Muldoon was really the one to discover Shezbeth, but the destruction of Chatarang Space University during the Pacific War wiped out all the data (and witnesses) of her discovery. Some have pointed out that gamma ray emissions detected as early as 2020 could have lead the way to 112434 Shezbeth (Muldoon denies ever seeing this data).

Furthermore at least six other primordial black holes have since been discovered in the Oort cloud, far more than any cosmological theory can account for, while others doubt the the possibility of a mini black hole being captured by such an object altogether. Donations from aerospace corporations, eccentric billionaires, and religious figures, and an all-digital crew that can have their memories edited or deleted (which Hawking Industries thoroughly denies doing), is all certainly fishy as well.

So we have a private corporation, headed by a scientist whose credibility is in doubt, whose records (and witnesses!) were all conveniently wiped out, whose crew cannot be reliably questioned, and who has received generous donations from a collection of wealthy and powerful figures. This corporation is in possession of an object that, according to prevailing cosmological theories, is extremely unlikely to exist - and more have already been discovered! They move it to the inner system and set about using it for physics experiments and power as a gravitic fusion reactor.

CLEARLY this is a power plant provided by the aliens of 61 Virginis, who control Muldoon and her "business partners." Of course, everybody knows these Virginians have been running a human colony since 1950, and of course their ships are propelled by Alcubierre drives to make interstellar travel possible. Muldoon and sponsors both corporate and religious are working for the aliens, doing who knows what in their private asteroid laboratories.

Ridiculous conspiracy theories, obviously. Except - hold on, Vosper Babbage really does have an Alcubierre drive? Somebody survived the bombing of Chatarang Space University and says they have proof Muldoon faked her discovery? Silas Duncan Station picked up radio signals from 61 Virginis that turned out to be real actual humans living in a colony they call Virginia!?!? Good God! It's all true! Who else is in on this!?

I think 112434 Shezbeth and Hawking Industries is a better fit for this story. Really the only part missing from its existing conspiracy theories is the Alcubierre drive, and that jives well with an interstellar alien civilization helping to spread human colonies. To me, it also makes more sense to tie something like this to private entities rather than a state, both as a theme of Transhuman Space and the real world, with space set to be dominated by corporations and eccentric billionaires rather than governments. Rename the Alan B. Shepherd the Elon Musk and now we're REALLY cooking with gas!
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Old 12-31-2021, 10:27 PM   #14
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How extreme a redshift would the speed of something moving away from Earth with an Alcubierre Drive create for terrestrial observers of the object?
That’s undefinable. The interior of an Alcubierre warp is causally disconnected from the exterior (infinitely far in the past). Light can’t get from the inside to the outside (nor vice versa), so objects within can’t be seen from outside. There’s no light to be Doppler shifted.
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Old 12-31-2021, 10:37 PM   #15
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In order for the Alcubierre Warp to be stable, measures must be taken that prevent the possibility of backwards time travel.
Anything that is FTL travel according to any inertial frame of reference is already travel backwards in time according to other, equally valid, frames of reference.

The reason that Alcubierre warps do not produce closed timelike paths is that their interiors are causally disconnected from the rest of spacetime. Nothing that was ever outside can get inside, and nothing that was ever inside can get outside, ever.
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Old 01-01-2022, 12:58 AM   #16
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The reason that Alcubierre warps do not produce closed timelike paths is that their interiors are causally disconnected from the rest of spacetime. Nothing that was ever outside can get inside, and nothing that was ever inside can get outside, ever.
So it's useless? 🤔
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Old 01-01-2022, 07:50 AM   #17
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So it's useless? 🤔
That depends on whether you can turn it on and off.
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Old 01-01-2022, 06:49 PM   #18
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So it's useless? 🤔
Actually it begins to sound like the TARDIS. However, as Fred Brackin points out, if you can turn the warp on and off, it could work perfectly well.

I assume that Alcubierre Warps won't be used in reality. But we've come up with FTL transports that don't violate the laws of physics. We haven't turned these ideas into working prototypes. But it seems to me that, if we can conceive of physically possible way to do a thing, we will eventually do it.

But enough of that. I chose Alcubierre Drives because they are defined by physics not game rules.
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Old 01-01-2022, 10:57 PM   #19
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So it's useless? 🤔
And probably non-physical, too.
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Old 01-04-2022, 03:50 PM   #20
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I think 112434 Shezbeth and Hawking Industries is a better fit for this story. Really the only part missing from its existing conspiracy theories is the Alcubierre drive, and that jives well with an interstellar alien civilization helping to spread human colonies. To me, it also makes more sense to tie something like this to private entities rather than a state, both as a theme of Transhuman Space and the real world, with space set to be dominated by corporations and eccentric billionaires rather than governments. Rename the Alan B. Shepherd the Elon Musk and now we're REALLY cooking with gas!
Seconding this. AFAICT the entire point of Hawking Station is to provide an excuse for GMs who want to introduce revolutionary tech into the setting—whether it's black hole computing, vastly more efficient fusion rockets, or fast interstellar travel (and probably some other possibilities I'm not thinking of).
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