Culture Clash: Modern Gamers and Keep on the Borderlands

[Anthony]

Wonder to what degree Keep on the Borderlands could be made into a DF adventure. Level 1 characters are pretty chaff in D&D, so you'd have to cut points by a lot, and I'd have concerns about kobolds and goblins being able to do any damage at all, but it might be workable.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Wonder to what degree Keep on the Borderlands could be made into a DF adventure. Level 1 characters are pretty chaff in D&D, so you'd have to cut points by a lot, and I'd have concerns about kobolds and goblins being able to do any damage at all, but it might be workable.

You could just make the kobolds and goblins tougher. In GURPS though, superior numbers and position is even more significant than in D&D.

[Jeffr0]

Originally Posted by sjard

On the other hand, your blog posts, and the ones linked to, finally made me realize exactly what it is about D&D3.x that feels wrong. And that is the resource management assumptions. The whole thing that each encounter should use up x percentage of the entire party's resources in hp, potions, money, spell slots, and magic items. We just played, and when one thing or another ran low, or we got too hurt, we went back to town.

This.

I had originally intended to just run the games and not give any tactical advice, but it soon became clear that this was the one thing I had to mention because it would have been cruel not to. "The scenario is not balanced so that you guys will win with the last hit point."

This post explains a similarly significant aspect. I didn't know how to explain that in two sentences, though, so I just said "yes, it worked" if anyone tried anything creative. (The lassoing of the kobald would be an example of that.)

[Polydamas]

The "balanced competition" aspect wasn't strong until 3.5e, although there were suggestions in 3e. I just ignored the suggestion in 3.0 that parties of two orcs should attack groups of four or five people with magic and better kit. Orcs are stupid, not foolish.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

You could just make the kobolds and goblins tougher. In GURPS though, superior numbers and position is even more significant than in D&D.

It would still spoil the old-school feel of people who really shouldn't be adventuring dying horribly, with a few survivors' survivors getting to level 2 after a few months because they stumbled over a big treasure and got 2,000 XP split few ways. Attrition rates slow down every time you gain a level, but all those "save or die" effects like Sleep or poison can still get a whole 3rd level party which forgets to be cowardly. Kromm's idea of old school is very different from mine, although it might be more fun to start mid-level.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Wonder to what degree Keep on the Borderlands could be made into a DF adventure. Level 1 characters are pretty chaff in D&D, so you'd have to cut points by a lot, and I'd have concerns about kobolds and goblins being able to do any damage at all, but it might be workable.

From what I've heard, kobolds are dangerous because they don't fight fair.

Doen't GURPS have rules supporting this? I mean, something like tripping a foe, then pinning him down, then when he's in this relative helpless state striking at the weak spots in his armour? I know GURPS has rules for aiming for "chinks in armour", but for this to work there must be a rule saying it is easier to do that if you have rendered the target partially helpless. Is there such a rule?

And so forth. If the necessary rules infrastructure is in place, it should be able to work.

[Grouchy Chris]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Wonder to what degree Keep on the Borderlands could be made into a DF adventure. Level 1 characters are pretty chaff in D&D, so you'd have to cut points by a lot, and I'd have concerns about kobolds and goblins being able to do any damage at all, but it might be workable.

For what it's worth, you could look at Kevin A. Muñoz's conversion of the monsters from B1: In Search of the Unknown. It includes bandits, hobgoblins, and kobolds, among others, so there is at least some overlap.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

You could just make the kobolds and goblins tougher. In GURPS though, superior numbers and position is even more significant than in D&D.

Yeah, but it's probably easier to just start the characters at 100 points. Now I'm pondering 'level down' templates for DF...

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Yeah, but it's probably easier to just start the characters at 100 points. Now I'm pondering 'level down' templates for DF...

Erik Smith's "DF on the Cheap" is exactly that, FYI. Google should pull it up real easy.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Erik Smith's "DF on the Cheap" is exactly that, FYI. Google should pull it up real easy.

Not as easily as you might want, but it did eventually find it.

[Jeffr0]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

From what I've heard, kobolds are dangerous because they don't fight fair.

I believe that has its roots in this.