Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Illuminati Headquarters > SJ Games Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-28-2012, 01:32 PM   #351
Mailanka
 
Mailanka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
Possibly. It could be simply that likely PoD profits <<<< projected profits from doing other things, so he spends his time on other things, but let me suggest a scenario: as e-books become more widely accepted and e-readers become better and more widely available, maybe PoD will look more and more like a rear-guard action against the slow decline of mass-market books.
That's the exact argument a friend of mine makes: The future of RPG rules looks more and more like an MMO, where you purchase a subscription or expansions, and supplements, errata and changes automatically update the rules you have, so you have a sort of "living document" on cheap, high quality tablet-like computers. Thus, fixating on PoD is a waste of time when companies should be looking forward to more and more dynamic rulesets.

I'm not saying that I think that's what will happen, but I think he makes a good case for why PoD might not be worth pursuing.
__________________
My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars.
Mailanka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 02:16 PM   #352
DanHoward
 
DanHoward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Agreed. All it will take is one decent e-reader and POD will be redundant. I still haven't found one that satisfies me but the latest generation is getting close.
DanHoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 03:16 PM   #353
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
Agreed. All it will take is one decent e-reader and POD will be redundant.
POD is already redundant for people who are willing to use electronic materials, PDF might not be your favorite format but it can certainly encode anything that would be in a paper book. At that point it's just an issue of how much electronics you're willing to have at your table, and POD is for the people who don't want any.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 03:32 PM   #354
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog View Post
But if SJG is aware of this, and is managing themselves properly, this shouldn't be a problem. If the sales drop off and SJG hasn't been holding too much extra inventory, isn't stuck with costs related to product they can't sell anymore, etc., then it's not a problem. It sounds from what they're saying like the SJG staff is doing just this.

And for all the occasional bad things that have happened to SJG financially, it does seem like Steve must be doing something right. He was making games when I was a 9-year old entering the hobby and he's still making them now, at the same company.
Yeah it would likely be cheaper to print a larger run but the fact that they are printing to meet demand tells me they are successfully managing the inventory glut vs. lost sales becasue of no product issue. Will they always manage that perfectly? I doubt that is possible.
But as long as they do it well enough so as not to lose much money either way then good for them and us.
SJG is I think one of the oldest RPG type game companies around.
Certainly a lot of companies have come and gone since I started gaming.
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 03:51 PM   #355
Peter V. Dell'Orto
Fightin' Round the World
 
Peter V. Dell'Orto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Jersey
Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
POD is already redundant for people who are willing to use electronic materials, PDF might not be your favorite format but it can certainly encode anything that would be in a paper book. At that point it's just an issue of how much electronics you're willing to have at your table, and POD is for the people who don't want any.
Er, not true. I like printed copies of my books, and I absolutely use PDFs at the game table during play. AND printed copies of things.

I write my game stuff up electronically, and use some printed out and some on screen.

I don't think a e-reader is going to wipe out POD, and I certain disagree with this idea of "people who like electronics" vs. "people who don't want any" as connecting directly to POD. Sometimes I just want to have a paper copy of stuff.

Really guys, you'd think they were stopping production of paper and pencils by the way you're talking. Setting up POD might not be the most profitable use of SJG's time but it doesn't make folks like me who'd like nicely printed copies of our game materials luddites.
__________________
Peter V. Dell'Orto
aka Toadkiller_Dog or TKD
My Author Page
My S&C Blog
My Dungeon Fantasy Game Blog
"You fall onto five death checks." - Andy Dokachev
Peter V. Dell'Orto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 04:13 PM   #356
ericbsmith
 
ericbsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Binghamton, NY, USA. Near the river Styx in the 5th Circle.
Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog View Post
Really guys, you'd think they were stopping production of paper and pencils by the way you're talking. Setting up POD might not be the most profitable use of SJG's time but it doesn't make folks like me who'd like nicely printed copies of our game materials luddites.
Agree completely. I have been a major computer user since I got my first computer. I was doing MP3's before Apple even thought of an iPod. I had a TV Tuner in my computer before most people even realized they could use a computer to play videos. I absolutely love PDFs for reading, and have had various e-readers for years now.

At the same time time I love paper. I love how it feels in the hand. I love how it looks displayed on a shelf. And I vastly prefer having real books around the gaming table. When I first got the internet in the mid 90's the first thing I did with it was start tracking down gaming stores online to buy OOP GURPS books. Today I own every "POD" book that SJGames has put out, despite also having all the PDFs. I've printed out most of the PDFs that SJGames hasn't done "PODs" with, and would gladly buy most electronic releases in POD.

I feel that there's still a market for printed books. I think that SJGames is missing out on an opportunity here; even if they don't want to do in-house POD due to costs they could easily hook up with a company like Lulu to supply PODs. I also think there's a significant sentiment among many fans that they either don't like PDFs or don't want to pay for them (sometimes even downloading them illegally) but would happily buy POD versions of the same books.
__________________
Eric B. Smith GURPS Data File Coordinator
GURPSLand
I shall pull the pin from this healing grenade and...
Kaboom-baya.

Last edited by ericbsmith; 02-28-2012 at 04:20 PM.
ericbsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 04:28 PM   #357
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
Ze'Manel Cunha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
I feel that there's still a market for printed books. I think that SJGames is missing out on an opportunity here; even if they don't want to do in-house POD due to costs they could easily hook up with a company like Lulu to supply PODs. I also think there's a significant sentiment among many fans that they either don't like PDFs or don't want to pay for them (sometimes even downloading them illegally) but would happily buy POD versions of the same books.
I'm not sure this is the thread for this discussion, but companies like Lulu still seem more like vanity presses than true POD, I've gotten a few books from them over the years and they just weren't up to par, if I'm going to order a book it better be printed at a higher quality than I can do at home or at the local Staples/whatever store.

I did buy a laser printer for PDFs, though I got a cheap b&W instead of a color model.
Ze'Manel Cunha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 04:56 PM   #358
Buzzardo
 
Buzzardo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
GURPS is run about as transparently as it can be without endangering our business plans and IP claims.
And bless you for that. It's why SJG is my favorite game company.

I don't buy toys, except "software toys". (Sorry, Phil.)
Buzzardo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 10:44 PM   #359
RevBob
 
RevBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Here on the perimeter, there are no stars
Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
At the same time time I love paper. I love how it feels in the hand. I love how it looks displayed on a shelf. And I vastly prefer having real books around the gaming table.
DISCLAIMER: As usual, I'm speaking for myself, not as a company rep.

Hey, I'm right there with you. I own well over a thousand physical books, and I'd accumulate more if it were practical. In fact, although I recently decided to mostly stop buying hardbacks (in favor of ebooks), I'm still buying paperbacks...mostly because that's how the economics break right now. Ebooks get priced lower than hardback street price but equal to paperback MSRP, so that just makes sense. I can fit lifetimes of reading onto a chip the size of my thumbnail and jack it into a nice tablet or e-reader...hard to argue with that when physical storage space is an issue.

That said, I really love the advantage of not having my players know what I'm up to when I reach for a given book. I like being able to tag books as belonging to different "libraries" for cross-reference. And, of course, I love not having to wonder if I should bring a second book with me because I'm almost finished with this one.

Oh, I'll still be buying physical books for a while...but as collectibles to get signed, or because the e-conomics haven't balanced out yet. Doesn't mean I dislike my paper...
__________________
Find me at @RevBobTnJ * Goodreads

Looking for a St. Aosbczkcs medal.
RevBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 04:06 PM   #360
robkelk
Untitled
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: between keyboard and chair
Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
... but let me suggest a scenario: as e-books become more widely accepted and e-readers become better and more widely available, maybe PoD will look more and more like a rear-guard action against the slow decline of mass-market books. It'll be nice to have around for the odd lots to satisfy a tiny body of print-only die-hards, but perhaps it's just a matter of time before doing your own short-run printing becomes a sub-niche business in an almost completely electronic market.

I have no idea whether or not that's true, and I certainly hope it isn't, 'cause I really like physical books, but I think it's at least plausible.
I can see POD becoming the way to serve a niche market of people who prefer physical books, much like CDs and vinyl are now the way to serve the niche market of people who prefer physical music. I'm a part of both niche markets, but I know that physical delivery of any sort of data is (or is becoming) a niche market nowadays.

(And, much like In Nomine and Car Wars are now products for niche markets, I would hate to see these niche markets go away.)

I can also see POD being done at the customer's end rather than at the publisher's end, at boutique shops that do nothing but POD and copy shops that offer a less-expensive but less-customizable service.
__________________
Rob Kelk
“Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.”
– Bernard Baruch,
Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950
No longer reading these forums regularly.
robkelk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.