Alternate TL 2+2 and Armor

[trooper6]

Greetings!

I'd love some thoughts from you all. I'm putting together a little fantasy setting for an arena I'm doing.

I want the game to be generally TL3, but there is some TL variation. For example Humans are TL2. Dwarves and Elves are TL4. However, I want the Dwarves to have gotten there through technological advances, but I want the Elves to have gotten there through magic...so I want them to be TL2+2.

So elves have TL4, but through magic.

Now what does that look like in terms of Armor or weapons?
Mail is easy (or is it?). It is TL2 but the basic sets says gets x2 DR at TL4...so you can just say that it has that DR because elven blacksmithing is magical. (Though Low Tech doesn't mention increasing its DR by TL...so does that mean if want to use Low-Tech I shouldn't increase the DR?)

But what about something like TL4 plate? Or more accurately TL2+2 plate? Could I do something like saying that their plate is made out of magical wood plates rather then steel plates? Could I say that rather than mail made of chain they could have mail made of links of vines or whatever?

Similarly, can I say that the elves are able to make TL3-4 quality swords magically out of glass or bone?

Let's say that's what TL2+2 look like.

So how is this magic done? Can I just say that it's a thing that elves do? Or can you say it is a secret ritual. Or do I say that elves have a special Magery 0 that allows them to do the special Armory and Weapon Making?

Any thoughts on the practicalities on that?

[jacobmuller]

Sounds great to me. Dwarves are advanced hard-tech; Elves are advanced Bio-tech. Harry Harrison had a book with evolved dinosaurs in sauropod tanks / subs with thorn spitting venomous lizard rifles:/
Your elves?
Their deep rooted links to the spirits of plants allow them to get the most of growing things.
So vine chain, leaf scale, bark plate; thorn (Imp but armor divisor (2)) and willow leaf (Cut) arrows; blades of grass from knife to great sword, so flexible they won't break (but can be cut) and razor sharp.
Their armorers grow their gear, enhanced by ritual plant magic.

[kirbwarrior]

Mechanically (and more importantly, monetarily) speaking, you can just mimic TL4 gear exactly and call it by a different name. If ritualized leaves formed into armor is as heavy as, as expensive as, and hard to make as metal plate, then there's no difference from the customer's point of view other than opinions. I did something similar with magic bringing Rome to the modern age with 'kevlar' done as magical rune-covered bronze vests.

As for specifics, I would look at what can be done at TL2, give it TL4 numbers, and call the difference magic, going through each to figure out how it works flavorfully. For instance, if guns exist (they are late TL4), then elves could have special bows that mimic the numbers and effects of guns but require lengthy rituals to load and special materials to mimic the 'gunpowder' effect, while dwarves just slam in the gunpowder and call it a day.

[(E)]

I have done something similar with elves before, 2+2TL with the plus 2 representing quality and time taken. The justification being elves can have higher skill levels through the entire production process. Elves also live long enough to have an reason for having the idea about selective breeding at early tech levels.

Using a bow as an example, an elven forest has been managed for melenia and the best possible trees are bred, grown and harvested by experts and the wood is then prepared and shaped by experts. These experts due to their long life spans have a reason to have higher than human skill levels.

On a side note regarding wood, http://www.ravensnpennies.com/2017/0...1#.WTdB2GgrKM8

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by trooper6

Now what does that look like in terms of Armor or weapons?
Mail is easy (or is it?). It is TL2 but the basic sets says gets x2 DR at TL4

Uh, what? The only place I can find that says that is on page 285 as note 3 under the High and Ultra-Tech Armor table. I can't find that note on the Low Tech armor table on the two preceding pages.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by trooper6

Mail is easy (or is it?). It is TL2 but the basic sets says gets x2 DR at TL4...

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Uh, what? The only place I can find that says that is on page 285 as note 3 under the High and Ultra-Tech Armor table. I can't find that note on the Low Tech armor table on the two preceding pages.

The Low Tech armor table has its own notes, but it's sort of wedged in and easy to miss if you aren't looking for it. The [3] on that table for mail refers to the split DR, not the TL advances. Also, TL 3 helms do not, as a general rule, have built in biomedical sensors.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Also, TL 3 helms do not, as a general rule, have built in biomedical sensors.

That's what the big slit on the front of the helm is for. The TL3 medtech probes that aperture with their integral electromagnetic sensor array to assess the state of the victim, which informs their further treatment actions.

(You look in the helmet and say "He's dead, Jim".)

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by trooper6

Mail is easy (or is it?). It is TL2 but the basic sets says gets x2 DR at TL4...so you can just say that it has that DR because elven blacksmithing is magical. (Though Low Tech doesn't mention increasing its DR by TL...so does that mean if want to use Low-Tech I shouldn't increase the DR?)?

Low-Tech armour and Basic Set armour are not compatible. Realistically the best you can do at TL4 is get +1 DR from hardened steel.

[Anthony]

The way the armor tables are laid out in Basic Set is rather confusing; there is no DR increase for low tech armor with improved tech, at least within the context of Basic Set.

On the original topic, when you have a TL of X+Y, including superscience or magic, you can pretty much invent whatever seems cool. Obvious options given GURPS Magic include Essential Metal and Essential Wood, either of which is triple the DR of the material it's based on.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by trooper6

Greetings!

I'd love some thoughts from you all. I'm putting together a little fantasy setting for an arena I'm doing.

I want the game to be generally TL3, but there is some TL variation. For example Humans are TL2. Dwarves and Elves are TL4. However, I want the Dwarves to have gotten there through technological advances, but I want the Elves to have gotten there through magic...so I want them to be TL2+2.

So elves have TL4, but through magic.

Now what does that look like in terms of Armor or weapons?
Mail is easy (or is it?). It is TL2 but the basic sets says gets x2 DR at TL4...so you can just say that it has that DR because elven blacksmithing is magical. (Though Low Tech doesn't mention increasing its DR by TL...so does that mean if want to use Low-Tech I shouldn't increase the DR?)

But what about something like TL4 plate? Or more accurately TL2+2 plate? Could I do something like saying that their plate is made out of magical wood plates rather then steel plates? Could I say that rather than mail made of chain they could have mail made of links of vines or whatever?

Similarly, can I say that the elves are able to make TL3-4 quality swords magically out of glass or bone?

Let's say that's what TL2+2 look like.

So how is this magic done? Can I just say that it's a thing that elves do? Or can you say it is a secret ritual. Or do I say that elves have a special Magery 0 that allows them to do the special Armory and Weapon Making?

Any thoughts on the practicalities on that?

Watch this

https://youtu.be/kF_M2GmO2TY?t=90

As for "chainmail" beware of over-literal translation across tech types. A biotech equivalent could be something like clothes woven from spider silk or specially treated leather. It could even be a worn living organism. By and large in fantasy games enchantment as such does not modify tech levels.

That doesn't mean magic can't be the basis for a divergent tech level but in general divergent tech not based on an advantage, but just on a skill. Varathorn isn't a mage. It isn't a setting where elves automatically have magery although those who do are often particularly apt. His tribe only has a couple of spellcasters. He just knows how how to work a certain magical material with the help of a specialized armoury skill that incorporates herbalism.