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Old 12-02-2005, 03:03 PM   #1
trappedslider
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Default Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

After waiting for a while i decided to play devil's advocate and ask the question:

Why do you think GURPS isn't as popular as the D20 system and its games and why poeple don't like GURPS.

*hides in a bunker somewhere far away*
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Old 12-02-2005, 03:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

GURPS isn't too popular with my friends because they just think of role playing in a different manner. They tend to prefer the high fantasy "cool" stuff, and the system itself favors a grittier style of play. Character creation is fairly detailed and requires a decent amount more thought than the d20, "I'm a mage" style of character creation. Thus D20 allows to pick a role and have a character they don't need to put much thought into and the system isn't too complex (for them, anyway). Which I should note is a valid style of play. Characters can develop a much better sense of personality and history through play than if it was all pre-written.

My primary complaint against GURPS is the probability curve. My secondary one is the stat/skill relationship. Unless every stressful (ie, adventuring) action is at a -4 penalty or so, half of the probability curve goes unused, which in turn encourages players from spend points on other skills until they hit that "probability ceiling", after which they move on to yet another skill...
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

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Originally Posted by Mylon
My primary complaint against GURPS is the probability curve. My secondary one is the stat/skill relationship. Unless every stressful (ie, adventuring) action is at a -4 penalty or so, half of the probability curve goes unused, which in turn encourages players from spend points on other skills until they hit that "probability ceiling", after which they move on to yet another skill...

you got that backwards for 4e.

Stressful situations are unmodified [the based assumption] it the non stressful that get +4. hence why Skill 12 is considered professional.

BUT in both d20 and GURPS is fined the probability curve does encourage them to stop leveling the key concept skills at a certain level, but actual they keep raising them so the can do more and more difficult takes [racking up the penalties]

and both d20 and GURPS probility distribution encourage people to get their secondary, and tertiary skills to a key probability level then leave them to either raise the primary, or pick up new tertiary skills.


to me the Populart of d20 has nothing to do with it machanics.

it becuase D&D uses it, create a huge base population that publishers can tap into for free, produces a lot of material for it. [it polatart is a not partical reated to d20 actually]

So it vissble, lots of material, anbd give it a group depended game work like a lowest common dinomater to which system people know.
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Old 12-31-2005, 11:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

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Originally Posted by Mylon
GURPS isn't too popular with my friends because they just think of role playing in a different manner. They tend to prefer the high fantasy "cool" stuff, and the system itself favors a grittier style of play. Character creation is fairly detailed and requires a decent amount more thought than the d20, "I'm a mage" style of character creation. Thus D20 allows to pick a role and have a character they don't need to put much thought into and the system isn't too complex (for them, anyway). Which I should note is a valid style of play. Characters can develop a much better sense of personality and history through play than if it was all pre-written.

My primary complaint against GURPS is the probability curve. My secondary one is the stat/skill relationship. Unless every stressful (ie, adventuring) action is at a -4 penalty or so, half of the probability curve goes unused, which in turn encourages players from spend points on other skills until they hit that "probability ceiling", after which they move on to yet another skill...
Seems to me that GURPS and D20 have moved much closer together in similarity than before. One change between 3rd edition GURPS and 4th is the addition of HIT POINTS. Before when a character took damage it came out of HT, but now HIT POINTS starts out as equal to HT, and you spend character points to make your HIT POINTS greater than your HT. The book suggests that you don't vary the HIT POINTS by more than 30% from the HT, but if you throw that suggestion out the wall you could then have GURPS High Fantasy. Your PCs would earn character point the way D&D PCs earn experience points, and your GURPS player would spend some of his new character points to increase his hit points making his character harder to kill. I think every 50 character points in GURPS is roughly equivalent to a level in D&D. So if you want D&D style advancement, then for every 25 50-point opponents you defeat, the party receives 200 character points to divide equally among themselves. For a 4 person party, that's 50 points per character. The GM should award 2 character points to the party for every 50 point character killed. To go one better, you might award character points for treasure accumulated, as wealth is an advantage worth points after all.
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Old 12-31-2005, 11:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

um 3rd has exactly the same HP rules, as 4e. the meraly Shifted them to be based on ST rather than HT. which was a commong house rule the got incorare into CI
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Old 12-31-2005, 11:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

One thing I could really uses is a GURPS "Monster Manual" with ready-to-play NPCs for PCs to defeat. Each entry should be an NPC complete with weaponsm equipment, and armor all written out on a character sheet and ready to use. The individual should generally be an average specimin of a type of NPC encountered, and their should be suggestions on encounter numbers for this type of creature and what its treasure should be and how many character points the GM should award for each such creature's defeat. The GM shouldn't have to do "homework" the night before to create this NPC to challenge the PCs. I've seen templates, but a template isn't character stats. I'd like to have a situation where I can open a book of standard NPCs and say things like, "You encounter 6 of these type creatures." Point to the creatures illustration in the book and then begin combat. I'd like to be able to build random encounters tables quickly with these ready made NPCs, and not have to plan ahead of time what creatures the PCs will encounter the next day.

I like to be able to have encounters on the fly. The easier GURPS makes things for GMs, the more popular their game will be. Its generally the same idea with their new book Vehicles, instead of rules on how to build a vehicle, we want ready to use vehicles to play in each page. In a like manner, I would like ready to use creatures and NPCs to through at my players, and I shouldn't have to generate the complete Character Stats for each one of the PCs opponents. It takes long enough to make the PCs in the first place, the rest of the NPC world should be done for us, so we GMs don't have to spend 90% of the time preparing for play and the other 10% GMing. That is my criticism. otherwise the game can be very compeditive with D&D and D20, it already is more realistic. I like the HIT POINTS because now that makes realism optional, one can play high fantasy if one wants, do dungeon crawls, accumulate enourmous hit points and challenge gigantic monsters if one wants to play that.
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Old 01-01-2006, 07:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

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Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus
Seems to me that GURPS and D20 have moved much closer together in similarity than before. One change between 3rd edition GURPS and 4th is the addition of HIT POINTS. Before when a character took damage it came out of HT, but now HIT POINTS starts out as equal to HT, and you spend character points to make your HIT POINTS greater than your HT. The book suggests that you don't vary the HIT POINTS by more than 30% from the HT, but if you throw that suggestion out the wall you could then have GURPS High Fantasy. Your PCs would earn character point the way D&D PCs earn experience points, and your GURPS player would spend some of his new character points to increase his hit points making his character harder to kill. I think every 50 character points in GURPS is roughly equivalent to a level in D&D. So if you want D&D style advancement, then for every 25 50-point opponents you defeat, the party receives 200 character points to divide equally among themselves. For a 4 person party, that's 50 points per character. The GM should award 2 character points to the party for every 50 point character killed. To go one better, you might award character points for treasure accumulated, as wealth is an advantage worth points after all.
If you introduce every foolishness D&D has ever invented, why play Gurps at all? If you give CP for treasure and for killing people, then I see no advantage in using Gurps rules. D&D is better for playing D&D than any other system ever could be. Why play a point-based system when you're really craving a level-based system?

Btw, even in 3E, there have been Hit Points. You could increase HP in 3E, too. What's your point?
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Old 01-01-2006, 09:04 AM   #8
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

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Originally Posted by zorg
If you introduce every foolishness D&D has ever invented, why play Gurps at all? If you give CP for treasure and for killing people, then I see no advantage in using Gurps rules. D&D is better for playing D&D than any other system ever could be. Why play a point-based system when you're really craving a level-based system?

Btw, even in 3E, there have been Hit Points. You could increase HP in 3E, too. What's your point?
Not every foolishness! GURPS mixes all sorts of weapons together better than D&D. You can have knights in shining armor charging a machinegun nest, the bullets cut through the armor like butter, but the armor still deflect sword blows. D20 requires abunch of workarounds to simulate this.
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Old 01-01-2006, 09:10 AM   #9
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

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Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus
Not every foolishness! GURPS mixes all sorts of weapons together better than D&D. You can have knights in shining armor charging a machinegun nest, the bullets cut through the armor like butter, but the armor still deflect sword blows. D20 requires abunch of workarounds to simulate this.
???? This is indeed not a frequent sight in most games, Knights mowed down by a machine gun...

But seriously, are you interested in introducing levels in Gurps? It sure sounds that way to me.
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:39 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why isn't GURPS as popular as the D20 system and games

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Originally Posted by Mylon View Post
My primary complaint against GURPS is the probability curve. My secondary one is the stat/skill relationship. Unless every stressful (ie, adventuring) action is at a -4 penalty or so, half of the probability curve goes unused, which in turn encourages players from spend points on other skills until they hit that "probability ceiling", after which they move on to yet another skill...
Incorrect. GURPS 4th Edition gives players the explicit right to have their characters choose to perform actions much faster than normal, in exchange for a penalty to the skill roll.

If the entire probability curve isn't used, there's a human error, not a system one. (Note GURPS 3E didn't have such a rule.)
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