[Basic] Advantage of the Week (#27): Common Sense, Intuition

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I'm really not seeing that, and the reason is that it gives a bonus to rolls that the player would be making anyway. But in GURPS as I run it, and in RPGs generally, there is no "roll to not be incredibly stupid." That would be equivalent to "roll to cross the street at the crosswalk with the signal and not fall down" or "roll to see the opossum in the silverware drawer you just opened." A nonabusive GM would just say "okay, you crossed the street" or "there's a live opossum in the drawer." And a nonabusive GM wouldn't ask a player to roll to see if their character tried to start a fist fight at the emperor's birthday ball; they just wouldn't assume the character did anything crazy and offensive unless the player insisted on it.

I worry that there may be a miscommunication here. I have very little idea what point it is you are trying to make, perhaps because I don't see how your two example rolls relate to the rest of it.

We aren't talking about rolls the player is making, but which the GM is rolling in response to the player stating that his or her character is about to do something is so stupid, it may be out of character behavior. This applies to the RAW version of common sense as well as my proposed alternative.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Psionic powers page 42

“He’s in the middle building. But don’t carry any flame and watch out for gunplay; it’s a chemical factory.”

The bolded section is an example of something Common Sense might tell you on a successful roll.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by D10

Im currently playing a PC with intuition and it just doesnt feel right ...

I feel like the premisse was good, but it should have been designed like Precognition, in which the default mode is passive advice the GM would hint you toward with a successful die roll, and a minoritary active use similar to the existing rules.

The act of arguing with people over what is a reasonable question, what I want out of my insight, and etc. is quite tiring. Unless im facing some kind of mystery door choice where the number is clear and finite, im getting huge penalties because the GM assumes there are dozens of ways to answer most questions.

Unless the number of ways can be precisely defined you just roll at -5:

Originally Posted by P:tW p.34 Gnosis

If you have too little information to define the alternatives, you can still roll, but at ‑5 to IQ or skill.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Otaku

We aren't talking about rolls the player is making, but which the GM is rolling in response to the player stating that his or her character is about to do something is so stupid, it may be out of character behavior. This applies to the RAW version of common sense as well as my proposed alternative.

I tend to disregard that, as I don't roll for players. They make their own Per rolls and so on. I just expect them to firewall, and in fact my players will harass anyone who doesn't with cries of "metagamer!" And in this case I don't think it makes any meaningful difference who is rolling.

I mean, do it your way. A player wants their character to offer respectful salutations to the local muckymuck or panjandrum. I don't pick up the dice to roll to see if they do something stupid and give offense. So a proposed +N to such rolls is worth nothing. And I would think a GM who did ask me to roll, or rolled for me, and told me, "You just insulted his nibs and the guards are coming toward you with maces raised," was being abusive and obnoxious.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Unless the number of ways can be precisely defined you just roll at -5:

Yes, but IIRC you have to buy a Cosmic variant of Intuition to do that.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Otaku

I worry that there may be a miscommunication here. I have very little idea what point it is you are trying to make, perhaps because I don't see how your two example rolls relate to the rest of it.

The idea here is that if a player announces he's going to start a fight at the Emperor's Birthday, the GM normally *shouldn't roll*. Every player, whether he has Common Sense or not, should be told that's a stupid idea.

Common Sense rolls are for stuff that isn't that blatantly obvious - say a fist fight does break out at the Emperor's Birthday, roll vs. Common Sense to know you should let the guards handle it, and the Emperor will hang you with the perpetrators if you escalate by trying to stop it yourself, or roll vs. Common Sense to recall that everybody in the Empire knows the Emperor really likes fist fights, so you can join in if you want, but taking a swing at one of his daughters who hasn't joined in is still a bad idea.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Yes, but IIRC you have to buy a Cosmic variant of Intuition to do that.

It isn't part of the Inspired enhancement listed in Powers, and the version in Weird doesn't have any other modifiers on it.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I mean, do it your way. A player wants their character to offer respectful salutations to the local muckymuck or panjandrum. I don't pick up the dice to roll to see if they do something stupid and give offense. So a proposed +N to such rolls is worth nothing. And I would think a GM who did ask me to roll, or rolled for me, and told me, "You just insulted his nibs and the guards are coming toward you with maces raised," was being abusive and obnoxious.

Why? It seems like Savoir-Faire roll to me. Maybe at a bonus but if you're operating from a default of IQ-4...

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

In February 1937, Ribbentrop committed a notable social gaffe by unexpectedly greeting King George VI with the "German greeting", a stiff-armed Nazi salute: the gesture nearly knocked over the king, who was walking forward to shake Ribbentrop's hand at the time.[68] Ribbentrop further compounded the damage to his image and caused a minor crisis in Anglo-German relations by insisting that henceforward all German diplomats were to greet heads of state by giving and receiving the stiff-arm fascist salute.[68] The crisis was resolved when Neurath pointed out to Hitler that under Ribbentrop's rule, if the Soviet ambassador were to give the Communist clenched-fist salute, then Hitler would be obliged to return it.[69] On Neurath's advice, Hitler disavowed Ribbentrop's demand that King George receive and give the "German greeting"

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by malloyd

The idea here is that if a player announces he's going to start a fight at the Emperor's Birthday, the GM normally *shouldn't roll*. Every player, whether he has Common Sense or not, should be told that's a stupid idea.

Well, that's one way to handle it.

What I did was a bit different. One of the waiters came over and politely asked if he could be of any assistance, with one of those looks that translates as "Do we have to escort you to Imperial Security and detain you?"

And the PC was in the succession. So the day after the incident, he was requested and required to come to the palace, and the emperor explained to him that, were he on the throne, he could beat the other man to death with his bare hands, and for the other man to hit back would be treason. This made the prospect of his ascending to the throne one the emperor found alarming. The player took the point (I don't think he had figured it out before then).

If possible, I give my players free will to do even really clueless things. But they have to make a point of it.

On the other hand, one of my players tells the story of the time he was GMing Traveller. The PCs were tramp merchants. So he told them that there was a holdup in the clearance for their ship to take off, expecting a session of comedy about bureaucratic screwups. And one of the PCs went to the office at the spaceport that issued permits, and threw in a grenade. . . .

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Powers: the Weird adds this rule for Intuition:
Which looks pretty abusive to me.

Whaen I do something like that I am typically bundling choices so my answers are likewise bundled and thus more broad or general than specific.

Originally Posted by simply Nathan

The player was himself very good at ignoring the advice he was getting out of this trait.

Unfortunately a pretty common thing in my experience.